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vraev

Carnivorous plant enthusiast
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No, it does not specify distribution - though one would imagine that like any statistical bell curve, the majority of those specimens probably lies somewhere in the middle. I know that's a big leap of faith on my part, but all other things being equal (which is probably unlikely), one would expect it to be true.

Well..Especially in the case of pitcher plants, we can say that it may not be true. For instance, lets look at villosa. A few individual plants that manage to get a foothold at 1500-1600m ASL might be just outliers and the majority is in concentrated above 2500m. Outliers can greatly skew the bell curve hypothesis.

I did forget aristo and bosh. Let me know if there are others. I updated the chart:
http://www.michaelkevinsmith.com/ne...titudinal-Distribution-Temperature-Chart.html

How many think burbidgeae should be moved up to the highland category based on the criteria that would categorize it as such? I am still thinking intermediate, I have witnessed a crop burbidgeae seedlings grown in highland temps and intermediate. Intermediate outperformed highland over the course of several years. Also, it could be that the mean of burdbidgea populations are found in the 1600-1800 range right along side rajah.

@vraev ... by perplexed do you mean that pitopangi, tenuis, and klossi would not grown in the optimal temps of Day: 75-85° / Night: 55-65° F. I think that temp range would be perfect for these species. No?

Well...I think it has to be clearly defined whether the classification refers to "altitude" or "temperature range". By that I mean if you take macrophylla, this species is typically a highland-UHL, but from experience, it is waaay tougher than villosa in growing during the warmer summer months. N. villosa stops growth and starts yellowing, while N. macrophylla is unaffected. So clearly, species can have differences in tolerance to temperature variation. Personally, I think the classification should refer to the altitude. And that definition has to be made based on the median of population consensus.

With regards to burbidgeae... From what I read, its a well known fact tat highland species seediings greatly benefit from higher temps in early stages of its life. Have you found that adults grow better at intermediate as well? I understand your argument...another bit of evidence to this matter is from Joel's website:
It seems that this species doesn't tolerate as low of temperatures as other highlanders. I would venture to guess that it does real well in slightly warmer conditions as an intermediate. I've heard from some other growers having success growing N. burbidgeae in areas of Florida as a lowlander but I don't know if that is entirely true.
source: http://www.nepenthesaroundthehouse.com/nburbid.htm

For sure, higher temps lead to increased growth, faster metabolism etc. But analogous to VFTs skipping dormancy, how long can a N. burbidgeae hold out in intermediate conditions. If what you say is true with regards to the median of the population lying with N. rajah in the highland range, that might provide the answer that: N. burbidgeae is tolerant for prolonged periods at intermediate "conditions", but requires highland "conditions" to persist long-term.
 
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For my situation the specifics of "intermediate - ultra highland" don't actually matter all that much on a practical level - do I heard gasping? Plants in those categories (over 1000m) are all grown in the HL chamber 70-75*F days and 50*F nights. Plants in the first two columns are grown in the LL 80-90*F days and 70-80*F nights.
 

chibae

An orchid fancier with a CP problem
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For my situation the specifics of "intermediate - ultra highland" don't actually matter all that much on a practical level - do I heard gasping? Plants in those categories (over 1000m) are all grown in the HL chamber 70-75*F days and 50*F nights. Plants in the first two columns are grown in the LL 80-90*F days and 70-80*F nights.

For my situation I have three areas, LL and HL tanks like swords and the intermediates grow on racks. I have no nep species in the extreme catagories except one. I have two diatas that grow and pitcher profusley in the same tank where glabrata, hamata and argentii do as well. Since diatas is listed as UHL, does this mean they have a wider distribution than some of the others on the list?
 

lizasaur

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WOW.
You are *so* cool for this!!!
Thanks so much! :hail:

Honestly, this is such a great guideline. Obviously YMMV as with anything else in this hobby and there'll always be exceptions: for example, elgecko has bicalcarata and hamata pitchering side by side, and mass has placed everything in the same Int-HL conditions and its all doing great.
 
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another odd one that doesnt fit the chart.....bongso.....having grown it i would put it as a warm intermediate more than a highland, infact i usually recommend it as a beginners plant cause the dang thing is so resilient to varying conditions being thrown at it.....

as others have said, the chart is handy as a rough guide but there are outliers within the list that are much more adaptive than their altitude range suggests....
 
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There is another chart but I can't remember where I saw it which shows altitudinal ranges in the form of a bar graph. I'll see if I can find it.

There was a list on the CPUK forum. Species were listed from the coldest to warmest climates. Both average range and extremes were charted. I printed a copy a long time ago, but a search on the website
today came up empty.

Oh, and many thanks, Michael. Nice work!
 

lance

Class 5 Nepenthes hoarder
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One suggestion... Is singlana really a UHL Nepenthes? While viewing the chat it seems several other growers of this species agree. Also, 45-55 degrees isn't necessarily UHL conditions. I grow my Nepenthes in the same type of conditions year round and they love it. The UHLers seem to fair even better when it starts getting down to 40*F at night in the winter time(with N. Macrophylla as an exception because it can grow strong as long as there's a good temp drop). I'd say 49-40*F is UHL conditions for night time temps. Anyone else think the same? I've been told this a lot by many nurseries that my HL chamber is not UHL in the summer nights when looking at this chart for help.
 

Heli

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I don't think 49-40 is entirely accurate. My villosa is taking nights of 50-55 and it's obviously happy, also the temps vary greatly.... Sometimes getting fairly warm or below freezing for UHL zones.
 

Nepenthesis

Formerly known as Pineapple
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I've had this bookmarked for ages!! So handy!! Love it!! http://www.michaelkevinsmith.com/ne...titudinal-Distribution-Temperature-Chart.html

Not sure if this was discussed, but I was told burbidgeae is definitely highland and not intermediate. I was also told that altitude doesn't necessarily classify them as ULL/LL or UHL/HL, which I completely agree with. While it may be the biggest factor, each species is its own and may be able to cope with different temperatures than its location. I have an ultra lowland-lowland hybrid in my greenhouse with nights in the 50s and its growing like a weed and putting pitches out like a boss. Insignis x merrilliana.
 

lance

Class 5 Nepenthes hoarder
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Same here. The heater is offline or the summer. Theres only about 5 species that I would say are true ultra highland and ultra lowland. The UHLs are the ones like villosa and lamnii which need 40*F temps more so as they age. The same goes for ULL Nepenthes like N. bicalarata and N. thorelli. Once again there are exceptions for these ULL species which don't seem to mind 50*F temps as long as the days are hot. My Lowlanders stopped growing in the winter but didn't seem to mind the 40*F temps as no black spots were noticed. Of course, most of them are grex hybrids and can live in both extremes.
 

Heli

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. The UHLs are the ones like villosa and lamnii which need 40*F temps more so as they age.

That idea is still in debate as some villosas have been easier as they got bigger and in fact more heat tolerant. 40F Isnt necessary at all anyways and temperature differential is equally important. Mass and Dave Evans grow villosa with relatively warm nights with great success.
 
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Really great chart! For anyone using it, it should be kept in mind however that altitude is not the only factor determining highland or lowland conditions. I quote here from a paper on montane cloud forest habitat in Southeast Asia; tromping ground of Nepenthes. They're obviously only focusing on highland habitat, but it could be applied to all habitat types I'm sure:

"A clear demarcation of tropical montane cloud forests
is difficult, as their altitudinal range depends on prevailing
local climatic conditions (Bruijnzeel et al. 1993). For
example, cloud forests generally occur at altitudes of 1200
meters (m) on coastal and isolated ridges or on mountain
summits where gnarled tree forms are dominant and cloud
formation is frequent. However, cloud forests can also occur
between 2000 and 3000 m on large inland mountains, and
as low as 500 m above sea level on small islands (Bruijnzeel
et al. 1993). Cloud forests are therefore defined in this review
as “forests that are predominantly covered in cloud or mist,”
where the influence of temperature and humidity is significant
(Bruijnzeel 2000)."
*

* Taken from "Up in the Clouds: Is Sustainable use of Tropical Montane Cloud Forests Possible in Malaysia?" by Peh et al. in Bioscience magazine, 2011 (have to cite my sources ;) He he)

How you would integrate that kind of complexity into a chart as this I don't know, but it's good to keep in mind that growing conditions shouldn't be based solely on altitude..
 
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Err

I think ramispina, faizaliana and tenuis are highlanders.

And for hamata, from what i hear, the specie is not so picky about temp drop, 18-19C at night is good. At least for aw nep hamata clone 1. Maybe this clone came from lower altitude.

Happy 2014 folks.
 
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Heli

villosaholic
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Err

I think ramispina, faizaliana and tenuis are highlanders.

And for hamata, from what i hear, the specie is not so picky about temp drop, 18-19C at night is good. At least for aw nep hamata clone 1. Maybe this clone came from lower altitude.

Happy 2014 folks.

I know this is very old but I would disagree. This is based on altitude range, not temperature tolerance. N. tenuis only grows at around 1000 meters, which is certainly considered intermediate. The other species also grow at a wide range but overall I think should be considered intermediate. N. hamata definitely should be considered a highlander because again, this is based on altitude range, not temperature tolerances.
 
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Heli: its your opinion. Thanks for your input. For myself, Andreas Wistuba said these are HL, i think he know what he talk about.

Cheers
 
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