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Nepenthesis

Formerly known as Pineapple
Joined
Dec 16, 2011
Messages
1,824
So I ordered a plant on eBay and they sent the wrong plant, it was a hybrid of the species rather than the species... So I contacted the seller and they agreed to send a replacement plant, and since they didn't have the species I wanted, they offered a N. ventricosa 'Black Peristome' which I had been looking for, so I agreed to take it. I was super busy yesterday and wasn't expecting it, so it sat in the mailbox overnight... Last night there was a hard frost and it got to about 30F and lingered around there for a looong time during the night. When I got to it about 45 minutes ago, I found that it wasn't in terrible shape, but wasn't awesome either.

Growth tip undamaged...
jzhegn.jpg


Damaged leaf...
28lxuz6.jpg


Very damaged leaf...
2cxtbmd.jpg


Least damaged leaf (there are quite a few undamaged, mostly on the bottom of the plant)...
w2n4id.jpg


Newest leaf...
1zgaiag.jpg


Full plant...
98a7vt.jpg


So what should I do about it? I am going to keep it inside with around 55-60F nights and up to 70F days with my other plants for another night before I move them back out to the GH. When I got it, it was covered in dirt, so I sprayed it with warm water (80F) that had been sitting in the sunny GH all day. I mixed the medium, about 75% sphag 25% perlite, and then I soaked it in the warm water so that it was warm for the roots. I don't know what to do now... Should I bag it? No? How do I care for a plant that froze? It doesn't seem to bad... IDK though. The roots looked okay, there weren't a lot of roots though.

What do I do?
 

BioZest

zesty.
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
769
Location
NE, US
This happened to me once. I had two neps outside and it froze. They were totally destroyed:cry:. I think you should just keep it at a warm temp and make sure that it does not continue to get any worse.
 
Joined
Apr 15, 2002
Messages
8,124
Location
Cernunnos Woods
You can probably expect to loose most/all of the original leaves but if it stays in good condition and the tip isn't ruined it should come back. I got a few "frozen veggies" once which was the start of my no shipping/ordering plants between Oct & April. But anyway, they did come back but all original leaves looked like frozen/wilted lettuce but the tips were strong enough to survive.

Be sure to check your mail everyday from now on too! :lol:
 
Joined
Oct 12, 2001
Messages
4,641
Location
Far Away NY
I am with Swords on this. You will most likely find that over the next few days, areas that appear ok at this point are in fact damaged and it will look as though it is getting worse when in fact it isn't. Treat it like the rest of your plants. Brown leaves, leaf tips etc can be clipped off. Try not to remove any green leaf area that survives though. It will be weakened by the reduction in leaf surface which will cause it to recover slowly. Some of the roots may have also been damaged so keep an eye out that the plant doesn't start to show signs of leaf dessication. If that becomes apparent then you may need to bag it up. However I would avoid doing that at this time because the damaged tissue is very susceptible to disease pathogens at this stage so excess moisture on the leaves is not a good thing. If the growth tip does end up turning black you may need to clip it off as it could progress down the stem. Also be careful not to over water as the plant has less leaves to facilitate transpiration and the potential for damaged roots unable to absorb water properly. You don't want to end up killing more roots by keeping the mix overly wet if the plant is unable to utilize the water properly.
 
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
1,295
lucky it was only down to 30....

I think it will pull through for you but as stated above, my lose many of the leaves and take quite a long time to recover and get to a regular growthrate
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
180
Location
Northern Florida
Just a thought as I'm not sure the exact structure of Nepethes leaf and cell structures, but depending on the nature of the freeze, plants aren't killed by freezing temps and frost damage itself, they are killed by the rapid rewarming of the frozen cells. When a plant cell freezes, it shrinks and dehydrates, not necessarily leaking it's contents if the cell wall doesn't break. When it is rewarmed too quickly, the cell swells too rapidly, causing the wall to break and then release all the cellular contents, killing the cell. So, if you are with me still here, it may not be the freezing that kills the cells, but the rapid rewarming. It's pretty similar with humans, hypothermia doesn't kill people, rewarming from hypothermia does for the same reasons. Now I don't know if this applies to Nepenthes, but if it was frost damaged, I wonder if rewarming it slowly, over a matter of hours would be more beneficial than a rapid warm up to perfect temps.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 19, 2012
Messages
1,295
water expands when it freezes so why wouldnt the cells explode upon freezing? ???
 

Lil Stinkpot

Lucky Greenhorn
Joined
Oct 27, 2009
Messages
2,075
Location
San Jose, CA
I am with Swords on this. You will most likely find that over the next few days, areas that appear ok at this point are in fact damaged and it will look as though it is getting worse when in fact it isn't. Treat it like the rest of your plants. Brown leaves, leaf tips etc can be clipped off. Try not to remove any green leaf area that survives though. It will be weakened by the reduction in leaf surface which will cause it to recover slowly. Some of the roots may have also been damaged so keep an eye out that the plant doesn't start to show signs of leaf dessication. If that becomes apparent then you may need to bag it up. However I would avoid doing that at this time because the damaged tissue is very susceptible to disease pathogens at this stage so excess moisture on the leaves is not a good thing. If the growth tip does end up turning black you may need to clip it off as it could progress down the stem. Also be careful not to over water as the plant has less leaves to facilitate transpiration and the potential for damaged roots unable to absorb water properly. You don't want to end up killing more roots by keeping the mix overly wet if the plant is unable to utilize the water properly.

Just thinking out loud here: Would Physan be beneficial here, as a preventative measure?
 
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
3,014
Location
SF, CA
The plant is more than likely to survive. My highland seedlings saw temperatures in the 2-3˚ C range (roughly 37-38˚F) this last week; and they couldn't be happier . . .
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
180
Location
Northern Florida
Plant cells bound with cell wall made of cellulose it doesn't change size. Insides get bigger as water becomes ice... Poof ice crystals shred everything...

How can an inside get bigger without a cell wall changing size? Ice crystals shred if the crystals growing damages the cell wall, but depending on how much ice actually formed within the plant cell itself. The cells don't expand because ice expands, water shifts occur with freezing between the cells, and water gets drawn out. Don't the extracellular spaces freeze 1st? Still just wondering if a slow re-warm might prevent less damage than a quick one.
 
Last edited:

BioZest

zesty.
Joined
Mar 5, 2011
Messages
769
Location
NE, US
Hey guys I think what happens is that the ice forms ice crystals inside the cells and punctures the cell walls. When it thaws it becomes somewhat like gelatin in texture. This kills the cells and creates black spots on the leaves. Let me know if I'm wrong.

*edit*
so I found this article on google and it seems Taargus is right:

What happens when plants freeze
 
Joined
Jul 22, 2007
Messages
180
Location
Northern Florida
Hey guys I think what happens is that the ice forms ice crystals inside the cells and punctures the cell walls. When it thaws it becomes somewhat like gelatin in texture. This kills the cells and creates black spots on the leaves. Let me know if I'm wrong.

*edit*
so I found this article on google and it seems Taargus is right:

What happens when plants freeze

Exactly! I'm not here to debate or come up with any new theories on what happens when plants freeze. We already know exactly what happens. My point was that this might be applicable to helping recover a frost damaged Nepenthes. The plant was protected by a box, and in a mailbox of some type. Considering that, I would think that he's got a better shot at less damage by a slower warm up. It's not as if the entire plant has completely frozen solid.

Either way, it's too late now, but it's what I would try if it ever happened to me.
 
Joined
Nov 7, 2012
Messages
204
Location
Midwest U.S.A.
I received three plants recently from an eBay seller and even though he stated never to have had a cold problem all three suffered leaf damage. All looked like they had been neglected and on one the new leaf just peaking from the center is dead and black. I am watching for new buds to form at ground level and a new growth to appear above but nothing yet. Maybe I should pull a decent leaf and stick it in a propagation box to see if I can start one from scratch.
 
Joined
Jul 3, 2011
Messages
3,940
I won't buy from eBay anymore because I have had some really dreadful experiences getting plants that way (unless its someone I know and trust already). The risk is too great for my liking.
 
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