Just got my butterwort

[Plantdoctor]

Yea, you heard right. I ordered from somewhere else other than petflytrap. But they didnt have butterworts in! Yea, so i just got it today and, it comes to me in a tiny TINY box like no taller than 2 inches, and not much wider than 1 inch. It was like so small it would fit in the palm of your hand, just barley covering the whole palm I said palm! not fingers to, just the little thing that has lines on it. So i open it up, the outside has a sticker that has tiny tiny tiny print that says live plants, do not throw! I mean come on! So i get to the butterwort, it sitting in there with a small amount of soil and its crammed in a small plastic bag that has butterwort written on it in sloppy, permanant marker, handwriting. So i get the poor thing out, and i shout "Breathe you fool! Live and breathe!" Okay so the bag is burning up! and the soil is dead dry, very little condensation in the bag. I quickly jump into the garage grab my industrial size of Swamp Peat Moss. Now, tons of people have told me that PeterPauls does Illegul picking from the wilderness. But now i know that's true, as for it was not potted when it came, so i guess when they saw someone ordered, they shouted "Yo bert, go to the local bog and pull a butterwort, wez got a order." So i grab the bag and run to my basement and open a cabinet and i pick out a little round pot about 4 inches tall 4 inches wide, and i also grab my garbage bag full of perlite (which isnt so full anymore, i own tons of carnivorous plants, that im repotting all the time and testing, like testing VFT's with tap water, which only 2 of them have died out of my 10 testers&#33

So i run upstairs fill about half a inch, put perlite, half inch,perlite. And so on, then i put him in, and fill the rest of the pot up with peat moss around him, neatly. I watered him a few inches in his tray which i grabbed from outside in my garden of boggy plants (VFT's nepenthes and pitcher plants which is a few feet away from my 10 gallon pond filled with U.gibba and other aquatics). So now hes in the window. So anyways, peterpauls really stinks. It just makes me mad to know they dont even care about tiny lives that need there help to grow! Well, the ones they actulley own to sell for more money, rather than the ones that they pick.

 

[cephalotus88]

Well, being sent bare-root doesnt mean it was field collected (even though alot of ppl say they do field collect , but they are in NY, i doubt theyre are any pings wild there). Anyways, alot of people do send bare-root, but how they sent it really stinks.

 

[Plantdoctor]

Yea, i know!

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

Mamma always said if you can't say something nice about someone, don't say anything at all. As regards Peter Pauls Nursery and it owner, you will notice that my mouth is very, very shut.

 

[Plantdoctor]

You, like peterpauls? Yes, actulley i will yell about this not keep quiet, my butterwort isnt looking good! I will make sure not to many people order from peterpauls anymore.

 

[Joachim]

Hmm,

I've read this post twice and well, I don't believe the story plantdoctor trys to tell us. Someone having that many CP and experience would not only order a single plant. The style of the story does strongly remember me of someone else not posting any more at Petflytrap forums.

Joachim

 

[Plantdoctor]

LoL. I have you beat in your words. I DO NOT OWN ANY BUTTERWORTS. EVERYTIME I DECIDE TO GET A FLOCK OF NEW PLANTS, I ORDER 1. TO SEE IF I CAN TAKE CARE OF IT. I DONT ORDER 30 AND NOT KNOW IF I CAN CARE FOR THEM, THEN I KILL EM CAUSE I CANT? HMMMMPPH

 

[swords]

Any plant (carnivorous, orchid or otherwise) that I've ever ordered (with the exception of a Cephalotus follicularis which has extremely touchy roots) was sent bareroot in a baggie with a minimal amount of potting soil. Some companies do sell potted plants (petflytrap is one) but 90% send plants bareroot - it doesn't mean they're wild collected.

I ordered a bunch of sundews and pings from a nursery in florida and I greatly assumed these plants to be way too touchy for bareroot type shipment (not only bareroot but with wet kleenex wraped aroudn the roots). But they are doing fine now, it took them a month of shock wearing off but now they are strating to put up new leaves and tiny dew drops. So take care of your plant and it should be OK, I lost all the leaves on the Ping. moraensis with the exception of one and now it has about 6 small leaves each following one getting larger and larger.

If you expect to be shipped potted plants tell the nursery you're ordering from-Many times they'll do it with no complaints but you will have to pay more for it due to the extra weight, price of growing container, etc. Unless they make it a policy to only ship potted specimens.

 

[PlantAKiss]

I have always heard negative comments about that particular nursery. I'm not going to support them with MY money. There are more reputable nurseries around, including this one.

Suzanne

 

[Parasuco]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Joachim @ Aug. 18 2002,06:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmm,

I've read this post twice and well, I don't believe the story plantdoctor trys to tell us. Someone having that many CP and experience would not only order a single plant. The style of the story does strongly remember me of someone else not posting any more at Petflytrap forums.

Joachim[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I concur...

Perhaps I misunderstood, but did you put a layer of peat, then a layer of perlite, then a layer of peat, etc

 

[Pyro]

Plantdoctor,

Please refrain from yelling. If some one disagrees with you and you chose to retort that is fine so long as it is civil. Screaming at the top of your lungs is not civil.

 

[unknownclown]

I'm not sure what the problem is myself ok the plant was sent bare root if you order CPs or any other plants off of the internet you should know that this is a common way of shipping plants.

Ok now onto the size its as big or little as your palm not including fingers...Hm..my palm is 3 and a half inches from where my thumb is to the end by my pinky from wrist to where fingers begin thats about 4 inches a little under but close enough. Ok so 3 and a half to 4 inch diameter sounds like a darn good deal to me. DId the site by any chance lead you to think it would be larger?

How can the soil be dry when theres condensation in the bag

hm.. well ok I've had some plants arrive that were dry so I guess it could happpen.

Hm.. Now what I dont get the most is that if you have heard that they supply poached plants and nothin but bad stuff about them why would you even consider buying from them at all? tsk tsk tsk shame on you!!

well I guess that wont happen again

Word of advice if you dont see something here on the site and you wish you did call them!!! they very well could have some stashed and not listed I do it alot and always find what I need.

If not check some others places there are plenty of nurseries that supply them and if you have a problem finding a particular one post it here people are more than happy to help.

One thing though Pyro is right this realy isnt the place to get snippy with other forum members.If there is ever a problem please contact a mod or Phil and Jeff so we can straighten it out.

 

[carnivorous23]

I can't say anything about Peter Pauls, I have never (and will never) deal with them.

I was in a bog this weekend, a protected "national monument" where taking plants, seeds, or picking anything is illegal and posted in many places (the signs made this VERY clear). The plants were mainly S. purpurea, D. rotundifolia, D. intermedia (not sure), and a bladderwort (U juncea or cornuta? yellow flowers, terrestrial). I saw hundreds of sarracenia flowers. After a few minutes, I wondered, why are so many flowering, but none are done flowering? After looking around, I noticed at least 15 cut flower stalks, and footprints leading off the boardwalk into the bog mat (two sets, at least). I don't think many plants were taken, but it seems someone here in New York has a very large collection of illegally gathered S. purpurea ssp. purpurea seeds. I didn't notice any cut sundew stalks, but I didn't see many with seeds either, though most of the D. rotundifolia were just starting to flower.
I also saw a pair of Lincoln's sparrows, and a huge snapping turtle, and there were S. purpurea everywhere in this bog, many of them large, sme flowering, and a few seedlings (actually, I was really surprised, I didn't see many small ones at all.)

 

[unknownclown]

 

[BuMbOiMk]

Ooh there's a national monument bog here in NY??
but thats hOrribLe how people did that!...I hope those seeds from the current flower stalks can make it into plants...in that bog of course

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

"Some" people do not feel that wholesale rape of Sarracenia seed pods, say about a half a bushel, at 50 cents a head is unethical. After all, it not illegal to collect them, they are not protected by law except in certain protected places. "Some" people offer to trade rare species of plants if someone (say a newbie) will only go out and simply destroy a habitat so that their nursery may turn a profit by dealing them out to the only members of CP society that will have anything to do with them: newbies. Only a newbie would deal with such Sarracenia scavaging scumbags, because they have not yet learned the sordid details of how the business is run. Be careful who you are dealing with, and if someone lays the slick line that all plants ultimately stem from field collected plants, realize there is a vast difference between sensitive collection by persons qualified to determine of the population can withstand the pressure of such collection, and those who neither know or care where field collected material is gathered from, as long as it serves to increase their bank account. There are nurseries who are ethical, and deal only in material they have propagated from their own stock. Pet Fly Trap is one such, and I will provide a list of many others on request if needed. With the universal jepordy these plants are in, whether there is legislation on the books or not to make it a crime, it is a CRIME, and one of vast proportions! To contribute to the eventual extinction of these plants for profit is reprehensible, if not outright evil. Should a nursery like this offer me my heart's desire for a penny, I would spit in their face. This happened to me as a newbie. I was offered such, and money besides, when a "certain" nursery owner found I had access to a Sarracenia habitat. I did not accept the offer, and I had a lot to say about it then to the owner. This business is still in operation, more is the pity, close to 30 years later, and it stays in business by targeting newbies who know no better! I can only imagine the destruction this mindset has caused in Sarracenia populations here in New York, and elsewhere. I also caution you all to avoid good deals on Sarracenia purpurea on Ebay, unless you know where the plants originate from. These organic beings deserve our protection and respect. Ignorance is one thing, but to know the plight of the species and still be indifferent to it is sick.

Sorry mama.

 

[NickHubbell]

[edit 8/24/2002 11:39 AM ]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After a few minutes, I wondered, why are so many flowering, but none are done flowering? After looking around, I noticed at least 15 cut flower stalks, and footprints leading off the boardwalk into the bog mat (two sets, at least). I don't think many plants were taken, but it seems someone here in New York has a very large collection of illegally gathered S. purpurea ssp. purpurea seeds.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Keep in mind that there are groups and agencies that obtain permits to collect seeds from bogs. They then use the new plants to re-establish decreasing populations at that bog or other bogs. A college could be doing research on the plants and received a permit to collect some seeds from the wild.

Still, other places will issue a permit for people to come in an collect a small amount of seeds. The idea is to allow people to grow the plants and then give some back to the area.

Nick

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

There is a huge difference between having a permit to collect seeds, and offering 50 cents per seed pod and asking for a bushel of them. Also there is no need for any hobbiest to collect any of this seed, it is widely available from other growers for the asking, or from nurseries at a modest price.

I am all for re-establishing Sarracenia populations, but I say let these populations be! Then there will be no need to re-establish them. There are respectable research centers that will cooperate with any sincere efforts to re-establish populations.

There is however nothing that will justify the commercial sale of field collected material to me. I don't care if someone has a piece of legal paper saying it is alright to do so. It is not alright.

Yes, field collected material is necessary for research, but most researchers with university affiliations also have both the knowledge and sensitivity to do this in a proper manner.

My point is that it is not acceptable to collect field material for profit, period. Of anything, no matter how common. These organic beings have every right to their place on Earth, and we are in no way superior to them as a species! As far as private collection for personal collections, it depends on the populations. There is no harm in harvesting a little Drosera seed, or a bit of Utricularia, IF the populations are strong. Both these genera are fast growing and prolific in reproduction. Sarracenia on the other hand is a slow growing species, and the seed percentage of germination and success of individual seedlings is not high. Populations of Sarracenia can't take the pressure.

 

[NickHubbell]

This was what I was replying to. I should have put in a quote.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">After a few minutes, I wondered, why are so many flowering, but none are done flowering? After looking around, I noticed at least 15 cut flower stalks, and footprints leading off the boardwalk into the bog mat (two sets, at least). I don't think many plants were taken, but it seems someone here in New York has a very large collection of illegally gathered S. purpurea ssp. purpurea seeds.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>



</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Yes, field collected material is necessary for research, but most researchers with university affiliations also have both the knowledge and sensitivity to do this in a proper manner.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

This would still leave footprints and cut flower stalks.

Since PP came up, I have bought from them in the past. All plants arrived in good bare root condition. It is hard for me to believe that someone can wild collect Cephalotus and Cobra plants in a weeks period, from the wild, and ship them with VFTs, Sundews, and Butterworts in the same package.

As for the size of his Butterwort being small, check out the companies website and read the shipping information. Price does not reflect size of the plants, except on the VFT bulbs. The picture of the Butterwort on the website shows what I believe is a very small plant.

I am not for collecting in the wild for profit or for personal enjoyment. I am just trying to point out that some people don't understand the entire story behind footprints in the bogs. If a forest ranger has to go to a area for inspection, collection, etc. they will leave footprints and other signs they had been there. Areas are maintained by local and national government organizations. Seeds are an easy way to protect the plants in the area by leaving them to grow, while being able to produce a lot of new plants that can be re-established in that area or in an area that has become threatend.

If these organizations buy seeds from other sources, the local collonies of plants will become mixed with species that are not true to the genetics of the local plants. Keeping things as natural as possible would mean cultivating locally obained seed. Seeds from other areas are not local.

PP might have field collected in the past, I cannot say as I have never been offered by them to do so, or had any indication they did so with my order.

My dad once said...
"When I was a kid they showed people tracking bears on TV. When they found the bear, they used a machine gun to kill it. This was a show about wildlife and marketed to youngsters. Times have changed."
That was 35-40 years ago.

 

[Guest]

If you support a place where you know 'some' things maybe obtained from the wild, then you are allowing that place to buy other things.

The point is, some things will keep the place in business and allow the continued harvesting from the wild.

I am by no means suggesting anyone is doing anything. I am merely stating things from a stand point of a business.

We know no one here in the states can 'poach' Cephalotus. But funds from other plants can be used to obtain Cephalotus.

-----

To me it is like buying CP's from Home Depot and Lowe's. As long as we continue to throw our money at places that will not treat these plants with the respect that they deserve....

We are promoting the cotinued poaching and destruction of these plants.

It is a sad truth when you put it into perspective.


So what are we to do?

Stop buying from places that you feel has these reputations. Ask questions. You know the answers. Talk to someone on the phone about their plants that they carry. You can find out many things from someone from a phone call.

If you know that a company will continue to buy large amounts of CP's to just let them dry out and die.....then do it. It is their money. They will eventually ( we hope ) get the point and quit carrying the plants ( or better yet, learn to take care of them ).

I cannot tell you how many plants I have gone out and saved. I MAKE MY OWN

I have no need to go buy some from a K-mart or Home Depot. But I do. The sad part is that others that have yet to truly discover the awesome nature of these plants, will have such a distaste for them because of what they obtain from places that:
1) care not for the plant, but for the $
2) offer no help with dealing with the plant
3) give instructions that will kill the plant
4) place them out in front so every kid will beg his mom for one. Only to have it die, never to try to grow one again
5) make demands on other plants and thus destroy them ( tuberous sundews? )

Enough of my babble. I can go on and on. I know that we will all do what we feel is right. Just remember that we have this time to keep things going and to try and get others to help along the way.