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  • #21
Interesting that this topic comes up... because I have a concern for a thought that I had (call this my confession) <grin>

We were out in East Texas... a few weeks ago with a couple of people from our county parks and wildlife system... who, I might add... have received permits to collect from certain areas.

Anyway, we learned of an area that was on the drawing boards to be mowed down for a highway expansion... In the line of the higway was a ton of S. alatathe and some sundews.... that I didn't even really look at ( I think butterworts too).

So... I was sitting there... wondering what someone could do to help save the population... and keep it all from being totally destroyed.

So the idea came up... to have an organized collection ... and attempt to get permits for such activity.

I have a VERY strong ethical issue with pulling anything from the wild... ANYTHING, not to mention CPs.  I was even having a problem pulling passion vines from behind my house, when they were about to level the field for new homes... but I did it anyway, in an effort to save them =-\

Anyway... so... is an organized collection with a permit a good idea? Is there an ethical issue with doing such a thing?  I have mixed feelings... I mean, I'd hate to have the placed mowed down for a new highway... but I'd also hate to pull plants, period.  

Now... we wouldn't sell the stock if we did this... we'd put it in our own bog... and maybe try to transplant it elsewhere.. where other similar plans were growing...   But Still it *IS* field collected.

So where's the line... where do we draw a line between saving plants and selfishly raping the land...  Though I'd love these wild plants in a man made bog... I'd also just assume leave them in their natural habitat....  but if the habitat is destroyed, we have lost all the way around =(

I'm contemplating this .... and have thought about it a few times since the visit to East Texas...   If I had the time and energy, I'd be on the phone Monday with the TX dept of transportation who owns the land.... and see what permission is required since the plants aren't protected specifically.

Any thoughts, opinions, etc would be much appreciated
  At the very least, it will guide me in drawing the line... for myself morally and ethically!
  • #22
Save as many as you can. Plants cannot move to get out of the way. When the government buys homes to be torn down for highway construction, the residents are able to move out and find new homes. Plants cannot do this.

The S. flava will be growing nicely, get moved down, try to send up new pitcher only to be covered with black top.

The difference between field collecting and saving a population is simple. Field collecting is taking from the wild, saving a population is saving the wild and allowing the population to find a new home. Without collecting these plants and moving them to a new home, they will be lost forever. There is nothing wrong with transplanting if it is to save population from extinction.

Something else to try. Get as much community support to get the highway blocked or redirected. Find out as much history on the area, the wildlife in the area and any impact on the environment from the destruction of the bog. Take pictures, show the natural beauty of the place. Make people want to save the area. Make them want to move the highway.

Bogs help prevent flooding as they soak up excess rain water.

If all you can do is save a few plants, take pictures of the habitat that was destroyed, record its history, the wildlife that grows there. Don't let the area be forgotten.

Check out this website: Places we protect
  • #23
If you remove the plants now into a man-made bog, you may be able to convince the Texas DOT to set aside a section of land near the highway to be returned to its natural sate and reintroduce the plants. You may also get some help from the Lady Bird Johnson Wildflower Center. Here is a link Lady Bird Wildflower Center
  • #24
Hi all,

I like your suggestion nick & magore.

Phil I think that if you do nothing you will eventually be kicking yourself because those plants are gone. Permanantly.  Their genetic material lost never to be replaced.  If on the other hand they are moved to another bog, man made or otherwise, they will continue to contribute to the genetic diversity of the species and may eventually be used to reintroduce S. flava to places where they have disappeared.
  • #25
Phil gets the Sarracenia mixed up.

It is S. alata not S. flava ( if you are playing the home version

The butterwort is P. pumila
Sundews: D. annua, D. capillaris
U. gibba and U. radiata (sp) if you are by water

Just thought that I would go ahead and clarify.
  • #26
Phil (& Jeff because I figure somewhere you will get drafted into this), In my opinion, saving from certain destruction cannot be called field collecting. But also reintroducing them into an area that already contains plants is not a good idea either, it can cause the local populations to be become mongrels and hybrids can often push out the original species. I think if you can save them do so, put them in your bog, TC them to spread them farther, I cannot see alot of people over reacting and thinking it was done to make a profit.

  • #27
We continue to debate this ( we are really not sure what to do ).

We are applying for permits this week to see if they will allow us to remove these plants.

If we were to be granted permits...the plants that would be taken from the wild would be used to stock a bog, and others would be used to show off during our educational tours through local schools.

We have also mentioned donating them to the schools so they can have something. Or better yet, try to get the school to start a bog.

We would NOT sell the plants. We would take seed and offer that, and TC plants ( those would be for sale/trade something ) But the original would not.

We also thought about offering the plants for SASE
Not to sell at all, but open to anyone that would pay shipping.
  • #28
I also won't call rescuing those plants poaching as well.

As long as there is no chance to reintroduce those plants into a new bog, which has to be created beside the new road as compensation for the destroyed one with similar conditions like the original one, there is not much gained from rescuing these plants for nature. From a collectors point of view bringing them over into cultivation is of course of some value. - And from an ethical point of view you do not only have to rescue those carnivorous plants, but also all other ones as well.

Of course I do appreciate your work trying to rescue those carnivorous plants! But you may consider contacting the ICPS with this problem - I do believe Barry has much experience with similar situations and may be of big help. It would also avoid the risk of getting into a situation where someone may think Exotic Gardens do have "poached" plants. Also the position of the ICPS asking to rescue those plants may be better, than that of a nurserie dealing with similar plants.

Good luck!