Deader than Hell

[Spooky1]

Just got in a Nepenthes spectabilis x aristolochioides and Nepenthes mikei with no name tags or heat pack. The stem is so long on the spectabilis x aristolochioides that when they packed it the foliage floated on top of the packaging material like a lily pad on water and being up against the box it froze somewhere between there and here. After looking at some pictures it turns out that the N. spectabilis x aristolochioides is the dead one and I can't help but wonder if it wasn't shipped dead. The mikei was within the styro peanuts and only the tip of the new emerging leaf is dead. I contacted the seller and offered pictures and am waiting for a response. Maybe the roots and lower stem are alive and could bud new life but it will take a few days to know if even that section of the plant was frozen also. The ventricosa x hamata that came a few days ago from a different seller appears to have suffered some damage also but should grow out of it.

Nepenthes spectabilis x aristolochioides

Nepenthes mikei

Nepenthes ventricosa x hamata

Nepenthes ventricosa x hamata four days after delivery

 

[31drew31]

Sorry to see that but frozen plants is a risk one takes when ordering plants in the middle of winter. The one looks like compost but there other two should make it. Definitely looks like that one froze during shipping.

 

[scottychaos]

hmmm..interesting philosophical question!
who is the most at blame here?
the amazingly stupid buyer who ordered several Nepenthes shipped to the Midwest in January?
or the negligent seller who agreed to ship them to the Midwest in January?

The seller should have refused to ship, so they have *some* blame perhaps, but IMO, not really..
because clearly the buyer took the risk..So if I were on the jury, I would say its clearly the buyers fault.
the seller cant be held accountable for Winter..although they should have refused to ship.
So I would place the judgment at 80% buyers fault, 20% sellers fault..
just ordering them at all, in January, was definitely the worst offense..
buyer has to take the hit..you gamble, sometimes you lose.
and this was a looooooooong shot.

Scot

 

[mylesG]

i've recieved many orders to the northeast this winter and none have been damaged. the sellers either waited for a mild spell in the forecast or included heatpacks.

If they are going to sell you the plants then some effort shoukd be made to warn you and offer options of heatpacks or a later ship date. effort on both ends wouldnt have hurt though

 

[Spooky1]

scottychaos must be the one who shipped it.
Totally meaningless dribble and a poor choice of words, you obviously weren't raised very well. Crude name calling indicates a childish ego. You are also wrong by the way. If I ran a business selling plants I would ship them in a way to increase the odds of success. Had the dead one been shipped with a heat pack with the entire plant well within the foam popcorn this post probably wouldn't have taken place. Requiring a signature on delivery would also lower the odds since the box wouldn't have spent any time on the step. If I lose a plant that way and the seller has done everything possible to insure safe delivery then it is on me.

 

[dionae]

i've recieved many orders to the northeast this winter and none have been damaged. the sellers either waited for a mild spell in the forecast or included heatpacks.

If they are going to sell you the plants then some effort shoukd be made to warn you and offer options of heatpacks or a later ship date. effort on both ends wouldnt have hurt though

I agree. I've been ordering and receiving plants all winter and havent lost one. Most were shipped without heat packs. Just got in a robcantleyi today and it was 35F outside.

 

[Whimgrinder]

1) Ask the merchant if they include a heat pack.
2) Ask the merchant if they monitor weather trends as applicable to the situation, and opt to delay shipment till weather is less risky.

If you don't like the answers you get to these questions, don't buy from the seller; choose someone else. I'm getting the impression we are talking about eBay merchants, and I won't buy plants from eBay anymore, unless I know exactly who I'm dealing with and trust them implicitly.

I buy Nepenthes year round from two or three trusted growers whose names need not be mentioned here. (We all know who) i have received shipments from two of these sellers in the past two weeks. (in fact, two shipments from each in the past month) All of them ship with a heat pack in the box, and all of them will delay a shipment if the weather indicates. I have had plants shipped to me in Oregon from locations in Colorado and New York, and not once have I had a plant arrived damaged from these sources. It's all about dealing with the right people, IMO.

Addendum: I don't think it's very fair to suggest the buyer is less than intelligent for buying in January, since I have had no bad experiences doing this very thing. But then I suppose its possible that I am of sub-par intellect ;-)

 

[Jcal]

scottychaos must be the one who shipped it.
Totally meaningless dribble and a poor choice of words, you obviously weren't raised very well. Crude name calling indicates a childish ego. You are also wrong by the way. If I ran a business selling plants I would ship them in a way to increase the odds of success. Had the dead one been shipped with a heat pack with the entire plant well within the foam popcorn this post probably wouldn't have taken place. Requiring a signature on delivery would also lower the odds since the box wouldn't have spent any time on the step. If I lose a plant that way and the seller has done everything possible to insure safe delivery then it is on me.

I agree on both accounts.
It's the companys fault. I got an order a few weeks ago and already new pitchers open. If the seller knows what they are doing there's not much risk.

 

[Spooky1]

It's not that terrible, I only paid $5 on a going out of business sale for each one and I was mainly after the mikei anyway. Customer service is getting to be a problem everywhere and the anonymity of doing business on line makes it easier hose customers. It's too bad I can't name the problem stores I discover so others won't get it. An eBay seller sent a Nepenthes with a signature confirmation and being nearly deaf I missed the delivery of course. I am happy that he cared enough to take that precaution in winter knowing that I live in the Midwest.

 

[BioZest]

I got a shipment of plants from mass a few weeks ago and the post office slipped up a bit. They sent the box to the wrong address and the online tracking said that they left a notice, which did show up at my house. I had to wait a day to get it and we had snow that week here in RI. BTW I am not in any way insulting mass or his growing skills at all. The plants were packed *very* well and any damage to the plants I attribute to the post office and myself for ordering at this time of year. I recognize that shipping plants in the winter is a bet, but I think it paid off.

here's some pics (taken today about two weeks afterward receiving):

n. truncata

n. lowii:

Sorry about the bad pics, I have the lights all really carefully set up and I didn't really want to mess with them.

pls let me know what you think about the condition of the truncata. I have it in an aquarium with about seventy-five percent humidity and temps with about 59 degree nights and days up to about 75.

 

[scottychaos]

scottychaos must be the one who shipped it.
Totally meaningless dribble and a poor choice of words, you obviously weren't raised very well. Crude name calling indicates a childish ego. You are also wrong by the way. If I ran a business selling plants I would ship them in a way to increase the odds of success. Had the dead one been shipped with a heat pack with the entire plant well within the foam popcorn this post probably wouldn't have taken place. Requiring a signature on delivery would also lower the odds since the box wouldn't have spent any time on the step. If I lose a plant that way and the seller has done everything possible to insure safe delivery then it is on me.

I expected that kind of reply..
not taking any responsibility for your own poor choices..
its always someone else's fault, not your own.
and if someone calls you on your poor choice, call them names instead of admitting that they might be right..
childish you say? yes, it is..

just be a man and admit you made a very poor choice to order Nepenthes in January.
you took a huge risk, and the result is not at all surprising.
its completely your fault.
blaming the seller is just a cop-out..

Scot

 

[BioZest]

@scottychaos: I would disagree. I think that ordering plants at this time of the year may be a bit of a bet on the part of the buyer, it is not completely their fault if the plant is not in the best condition upon arrival. I have seen people (including myself) ordering plants in the winter and them being fine. It is the responsibility of the seller to pack plants appropriately for the weather conditions, which was not met by the sellers Spooky1 bought from. Beyond that I think that the responsibility falls onto the post office and somewhat on the buyer for ordering at this time of year. The winter just adds to the risks that the buyer always takes when ordering plants from remote sources. I think it is perfectly fine to ship plants in the winter, but might not be a good choice for growers with less experience, who might not be able to nurse plants back to health, if something goes wrong. No one can change what you think or do, I just sharing my ideas on the subject (*meaning I don't want to start a full scale debate*).

 

[scottychaos]

@scottychaos: I would disagree. I think that ordering plants at this time of the year may be a bit of a bet on the part of the buyer, it is not completely their fault if the plant is not in the best condition upon arrival. I have seen people (including myself) ordering plants in the winter and them being fine. It is the responsibility of the seller to pack plants appropriately for the weather conditions, which was not met by the sellers Spooky1 bought from. Beyond that I think that the responsibility falls onto the post office and somewhat on the buyer for ordering at this time of year. The winter just adds to the risks that the buyer always takes when ordering plants from remote sources. I think it is perfectly fine to ship plants in the winter, but might not be a good choice for growers with less experience, who might not be able to nurse plants back to health, if something goes wrong. No one can change what you think or do, I just sharing my ideas on the subject (*meaning I don't want to start a full scale debate*).

Good points..
but there is really one way this whole thing could have been prevented..don't order Nepenthes in January!
I did say the seller bears *some* responsibility..(I called it 80/20 buyer/seller)
But IMO the sellers responsibility should have been:
"sorry, I don't ship Nepenthes to your state until May, because its winter, because I cant control the post office, because nepenthes are tropical, and I cant guarantee their not freezing to death."
That would be a responsible sellers position..
The buyer and seller were both at fault..I happen to blame the buyer more heavily..
if some want to blame the seller more heavily, thats fine I guess..there is clearly blame for both..
how much blame for each is grey area and subjective..
if someone wanted to call it 50/50, I suppose that point could be made..
(Spooky is trying to convince himself the fault is 100% seller and 0% him..well..no one is going to buy that.)

The Post Office really cant be blamed at all though..
they never guarantee keeping mail warm..its not their business to heat mail.
the person using the post office has to take that responsibility, to make sure things dont freeze..

Its just a really really really bad idea to order nepenthes in January..
and its a huge risk..and its very likely they can freeze..
those simple facts cant be disputed..
the reason these plants died isnt because "the seller didnt use a heat pack"..
the reason they died is because its January!
that cause of death could have been easily avoided..dont order Nepenthes in January..
its very simple really..

Scot

 

[roxorboxor]

@Spooky1: I just ordered from that same place last week. My spec x aristo looks exactly the same as yours should (mine's green tho sorry), so my guess is that it probably died en route to you. I will say that it wasn't packaged well at all (basically just the potted plant surrounded by packing peanuts) which is probably why the growth tip on my plant is turning black now.

Good thing it was $5, so keep in mind that sellers may not include a heat pack or even a quality packing job.

Sorry about your plant :< but the other two will make it.

 

[lance]

pls let me know what you think about the condition of the truncata. I have it in an aquarium with about seventy-five percent humidity and temps with about 59 degree nights and days up to about 75.

Your Truncata and Lowii look like they will survive. The Growth tip appears to have survived on the truncata as well as on the lowii.



It is not the buyers fault for purchasing Nepenthes in winter. I tend to purchase most of my Nepenthes in the winter during the time when they are the most slow so they can adapt in time for uninterrupted summer growth. USPS tends to keep most of it's packages inside, but the occasional cold spell can harm the packages as they are getting shipped out in the day.

 

[Spooky1]

@scottychaos
You make a lot of assumptions about someone you know nothing about, I always take responsibility for my actions and know the risks involved with everything I do. I'm blaming the seller for the poor packaging, not the weather and calling people stupid is just your way of showing your pseudo-superiority. Thoughtful commentary results in thoughtful response, something you obviously know nothing about. You have had your say, now why don't you goose-step off this string. I bet you don't talk to people like that face to face so why do it here.............unless of course you are the one that packaged and shipped these plants

 

[richjam1986]

ScottyChaos: You could have just been more respectful, mainly. You didn't seriously think you wouldn't get any flack for calling the thread's author "dumb", did you? (edit: your exact words were "amazingly dumb"... I mean, really?) That's seriously disrespectful, and plain rude. You could have made the same case in a polite way. If you bite, people will bite back...

Also, as mentioned by others, the truth is that MANY people succesfully order plants in the winter, despite some risk.
Should you go about ordering in winter with caution? Yes...But it is done regularly by some of the "best" in the hobby, and no one's head should be chewed off for doing it, lol.

Edit: I don't think anyone disagrees with your premise that it can be risky to order in Winter, depending on who you order from especially, and depending on the weather in a particular week. Some choose to take the slight risk, and others such as yourself choose to completely wait out for warmer weather, and both choices are personal, and OK. In any case, I'm sure Spooky1 has learned to be a little more careful when ordering in winter in the future. The sad fact is, we can't always depend on the seller to do things right, so it's good to double check with them before finalizing the purchase. For just $5 each (if I read right), I think you (Spooky1) still made out really well despite the loss of one plant . That price is a steal!

 

[Spooky1]

roxorboxor
Thanks for weighing in, I'm not mad at the seller or anything like that. It was a going out of business sale and I was aware of what that might mean. I think I might have bought the last spectabilis x aristolochioides because the link to it was dead after and I expected a less than perfect plant. I'm happy with the mikei and I was wrong, the growth tip is ok. It is just so furry that it looked damaged so I put on the mag visor and did a close inspection.

 

[richjam1986]

Spooky1: Your N. spectabilis x aristolochioides most likely still has living stem tissue, and might make new sprouts from the stem if given the chance to do so. Just in case you hadn't thrown it out yet....Might be worth a try

 

[richjam1986]

I expected that kind of reply..
not taking any responsibility for your own poor choices..
its always someone else's fault, not your own.
and if someone calls you on your poor choice, call them names instead of admitting that they might be right..
childish you say? yes, it is...
Scot

Really sorry, I just have to get the rest of this out of my system...

You may recall, Scott (or maybe you don't recall ), that YOU were the first to start the name calling... Childish?? Yes...lol

Ok, I feel better