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Sarr cross-pollination rules?

Hey guys,

I'm trying to get a handle on the "rules" of Sarr pollination. I looked around and I can't find answers to these questions.

I read that you can't self-pollinate or use genetically identical plants (dividions or TC clones), but can you cross pollinate any other Sarracenia and expect to get seed?

Does it get very hit or miss when trying to cross pollinate using hybrids (as opposed to non-hybrids), or is this usually successful as well? E.g. I'm curious if I can cross pollinate my S. x catesbaei (pupurea x flava natural hybrid) with my Judith Hindle.

Lastly, are there many hybrids that don't flower, or flower but will never set seed?
 
Self pollinating does set seed it just doesn't always result in the seed yield you would get from a cross pollination between two more gentically diverse plants. People do it all the time though and get plenty of seed so if you want to self pollinate go ahead.

You can breed together pretty much any two sarrs and get seed and this includes already hybridized plants so you should be more than able to get seed from the cross your looking at making.

The only ones I know of that don't really set seed are the double flowered sarrs like leuco tarnok. I havent heard of many sterile plants apart from those although there probably are some.
 
You can get some pretty interesting results when self-pollinating hybrid Sarr's. I don't know why people don't do it more often. I've read somewhere that you get inbreeding depression, but I haven't found that to be the case - maybe over several generations, but I have several first generation selfed plants and they're doing great. Cool-looking too.
 
Anything goes really. Practically all Sarracenia species and hybrids are cross and self-fertile, even TC clones. In-breeding depression does occur, some species are more tolerant than others. I think it is S. flava that is one species sensitive to in-breeding depression. There have been papers published on this, try a Google or JSTOR search. I think it was Phil Sheridan's paper that I read on the subject.

Most registered Sarracenia cultivars are clones of a specific plant so unless specified otherwise in the published description seed offspring should not be labeled as the cultivar.

Pyro mentioned that there is a way to get seed from S. 'Tarnok'.
 
How tolerant are S.purpurea to in-breeding depression?
 
I don't know about purpurea, but I've seen some inbred plants that struggle to produce proper pitchers and grow deformed flowers.
 
I don't know about purpurea, but I've seen some inbred plants that struggle to produce proper pitchers and grow deformed flowers.

thats weird. so how are sundews and flytraps so effecient at self pollinating?
 
Different genus, diifferent evolutionary path.
 
You do self pollination but generally - as some have stated - that the yield is less. I attribute this phenomena to sarracenia being protogynous - where the female organs are receptive before the male ones such that by the time you have ripe pollen, the female ovaries are almost to non-receptive. However nothing says that you can't take pollen from a flower that has opened a few days prior to pollinate one which has just opened. It's just a matter of timing. Self pollination from a previously opened flower to another flower on the same plant seems to happen rather frequently in some species - such as S. rubra - where the plant puts out a number of flowers - sometimes even two from the same scape.
 
  • #10
It also has to do with the structure of the flowers. In family Droseraceae the anthers and stigma are exposed next to each other. An insect crawling over them can't help but spread pollen from the anthers to the stigma. Wind can do this too. And with most when the flower closes it will press the anthers against the stigma. Timing is not so important since the flowers close as long as the stigma are receptive and the pollen is still fertile when the flower closes.

With Sarracenia the flowers do not close. The stigma are separated from anthers by the petals and sepals. The structure of the flower makes it more likely that an insect will brush against a stigma when entering the flower than when leaving it. This increases the likelihood that pollen will be transferred from flower to flower.

Here we go:

Inbreeding, outbreeding, and heterosis in the yellow pitcher plant, Sarracenia flava (Sarraceniaceae), in Virginia
Philip M. Sheridan and David N. Karowe
(American Journal of Botany. 2000;87:1628-1633.)

Self-pollination resulted in significantly lower offspring quantity and quality. Total seed number and total seed mass for self-pollinated capsules were approximately one-fourth that of outcrossed capsules. Germination, survivorship, and growth over 5 yr were also significantly lower for offspring from self-pollinated capsules. Together, these results suggest strong inbreeding depression in this species.
 
  • #11
That is an interesting article, especially that S. flava from NC did not exhibit any inbreeding depression.
 
  • #12
Here's a paper on interbreeding of S. purpurea in Switzerland. The plant has become invasive there. It raises the possibility of a mechanism that allows purging of deleterious genes from the formation of "family groups". It is also noted that the Swiss populations produce up to 15 flower scapes while S. purpurea populations in their native habitats produce 1 or 2 scapes.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/2/277#SEC5
 
  • #13
Here's a paper on interbreeding of S. purpurea in Switzerland. The plant has become invasive there. It raises the possibility of a mechanism that allows purging of deleterious genes from the formation of "family groups". It is also noted that the Swiss populations produce up to 15 flower scapes while S. purpurea populations in their native habitats produce 1 or 2 scapes.

http://aob.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/full/95/2/277#SEC5

So if I'm reading this right, it would mean that S.purpurea is unaffected by inbreeding?
 
  • #14
For the Swiss population, yes. The native US populations are obviously different since they don't produce 15 scapes. It may have been the plants that the Swiss populations began with had these traits.

If S. purpurea have become invasive they are obviously expanding. Producing a large number of seed would be advantageous.

As for the NC S. flava populations vs Virginia populations, Hummer's study was begun in the late 50's and Meadowviews study in the 80's. The populations in the 50's were larger and possibly less inbred to begin with where as the Virgina populations were already in a decline from habitat loss. Indeed today there are no Sarracenia sites left except those where plants are being reintorduced.
 
  • #15
For the Swiss population, yes. The native US populations are obviously different since they don't produce 15 scapes. It may have been the plants that the Swiss populations began with had these traits.

Hmmm, I was considering selfing my two purpurea flowers, that's why I was curious.
 
  • #16
O_O WOT? Super-Purpurea?

ME WANT!
 
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