Most hardy Sarracenia for a northern bog.

[scottychaos]

Next Spring, 2010, I think my wife and I are finally going to build our ornamental pond in the backyard..we have it planned out, about 6x8 feet, and 2 feet deep.

As part of the pond, I definitely want to try an outdoor CP bog!
something I have wanted to try for many years, but haven't had the opportunity to build until now..

Anyone here have any experience with "southern" Sarracenia in northern bogs?
(im in zone 6, Western NY)
I know obviously S. purpurea will do fine, and I plan to have some of them, but im also interested in seeing if some southern types will survive outdoors in the winter here, like S. flava or S. leucophylla, or hybrids or whatever..

are there any varieties that are known to be especially cold hardy? any that are known NOT to be? Im interested in ordering some seeds this year and getting them started..maybe grow them for two or three years before adding them to the bog..which should be ready for them by then.

thanks,
Scot

 

[F R e N c H 3 z]

As long as you heavily mulch prior to the severed colds coming in you should be able to. I believe there are a few ppl here from NY that do this. I'm not sure if jimscott has an inground bog or not but he lives in NY as well. I know it can be done, you'll just have to take the necessary precautions.

 

[CPsam]

the most cold hardy sarrs are oreophylla, purpurea purpurea, rubra jonesii

 

[sarracenia]

you shouldn't have any problems with any of them if they're protected well enough in winter. it's not really the cold that is detrimental, but the dessication. i'd try a few of the more hardy ones for a "test winter" and see how they do. oreophila and it's hybrids would be a good test, Dixie Lace is very hardy, the little bug series does very well for me in WI. if i were to avoid any, it would probably be leucophylla, maybe rosea too.

 

[SirKristoff]

yeah it seems leucophylla is definitely one of my most cold sensitive plants...doesnt exactly like it cold lol.
as CPSam stated, Oreophila, most purpurea, ill side with with sarracenia and say probably not rosea, im sure most flava would take it fine.

 

[seedjar]

If you're worried about winterizing you might want to consult some books on permaculture. It will probably take a little adapting to use permaculture methods for an ornamental pond, but there are a lot of tried and true landscaping and planting tricks for controlling conditions in the garden. Building up walls or mounds to control drafts is a simple one; you can also use a thick layer of live Sphagnum and other low-growing bog plants to insulate your rhizomes. With a few inches of ground cover and a layer of snow, your plants should be pretty well protected from cold air. Also consider that your plants will be considerably more insulated than potted specimens because the soil volume isn't exposed to open air (or, more importantly, wind - even a pot on the ground stays significantly warmer than a pot on a bench or other raised surface.) If you're still concerned, you might put a heater in the pond and circulate the water slowly, but that's expensive and prone to failure.
As for species, I'd say avoid purebred S. minor - they definitely don't look their best in the cold. S. oreophila is a really good suggestion; mine seem to do their best after cold winters. Low-growing species are bound to show less wear through stormy winter weather, but that may not matter to you if you aren't concerned with having something to look at in the winter.
~Joe

 

[cp-connection]

In my bog Flava did the best. purpurea montana died, leucophylla and rubra alabamensis look bad.

 

[petmantis]

my S. minor, and hybrid S. 'Scarlet Belle' which is leucophylla x psittacina are the only sarrs that don't like it here in canada. all my other ones are doing fine, especially purpurea and oreophila...

 

[Capensis]

Yeah, I think S. minor probably wouldn´t do so well.

 

[mcantrell]

On the flip side, my Sarrs -- including my purpurpea -- didn't survive the winter here in Twin Falls ID... which is either 5 or 6 depending on who you ask. But then again, mine weren't in the ground, they were in pots out on the porch with no winterization, so...

 

[RL7836]

i'd try a few of the more hardy ones for a "test winter" and see how they do.

The problem w/ this (at least here in NJ) is the variability of our winters. One year, we'll have lots of temps in single digits w/ no snow cover & then we'll get several years where really cold temps are rare. So plants that survive one or 2 winters may succumb the next ... I tended to lose a few plants each winter - naturally my rarer varieties. The people who seem to have success use lots of air-trapping mulch (snow, pine needles, straw, etc). Leaves from deciduous trees tend to compact and form a seal that eliminates any air penetration - frequently killing the plants. (As an aside I had a 'grove' of seed-grown leucos in the bog that came back each year very well ...)

 

[scottychaos]

thanks for the input guys!
good stuff to know..

yes, im sure HEAVY mulch is the key..
I would probably put a 1-foot layer of straw over the bog every winter..maybe 2-feet thick.

this isnt going to be a huge bog, so covering it wont be a big problem..
im thinking maybe 2 feet wide by 4 or 5 feet long, along one edge of the pond..

I have been thinking about water supply for the bog..
it would be easy to simply raise the bog a few inches above the water level of the pond, then rely on the pond water to water the bog..but the pond will probably be filled and maintained with the hose (tap water) which wouldnt be good for the bog, so im thinking the pond and bog will have to be totally seperate systems, and the bog can be maintained with rain water.

I also read in one of my CP books yesterday that winter survivability is better if the bog is dryer in the winter..not fully waterlogged..because air in the media is a better insulator that water..which means the bog would need some kind of drain..hmmm..im not sure that is really necessary, but its something to consider..

I better get planning!
I only have a year to work out all the details..

Scot

 

[mabudon]

I keep S.flava, S.alata, S.leucophylla and S.oreophila plus a bunch of crosses outside year round and don't even mulch them. S.minor doesn't survive but all the others seem to have NO problems. P.vulgaris, P.grandiflora and D.filiformis ssp. filiformis also thrive with no special anything.

Oh and I think I'm pretty much 200 miles due west of you so pretty much identical conditions climate-wise

 

[Aslam]

Meadowview Biological Reaserch's catalog noted that S. Psittacina tolerated cold badly. S. Rosea is a species ONLY in the FL panhandle area, which suggests they hate freezing for too long. Same with S. Minor, and S. Alata probably(The cold part, not the panhandle part.). Of the Rubra complex, ssp. jonessii is a mountain plant( Along w/ S. Oreophila) and more cold-hardy than the others. S. Leucophylla is questionable in my book, since I read that they'll decline and die if they don't get a long, hot, summer. This goes for S. Minor too. Of the S. Flava, it goes as far north a VA, so they'll probably do well. S. purpurea ssp. venosa var. montana is a mountain plant like S. Jonessii, and ssp. purpurea is in Canada! So of the species, S. Purpurea "montana", ssp. purpurea, S. Flava, S. Jonessii, S. Oreophila and maybe S. Leucophylla would do good for ya, along with a mess of hybrids . I only grow S. Psittacina, S. Flava, S. leucophylla, S. Rubra ssp.? and S. purpurea, so I don't have much experience under my belt, but that's my opinoin.

Happy growing!
Aslan

 

[mabudon]

S.alata is fine up where I am I guarantee it

 

[Pyro]

Way back in the old old days of this forum (talking like 8 years or so) Dustin (aka nepenthes gracilis) had a thread on his in ground bog in upstate NY and how he over wintered it. I would see if you can locate that thread.


From my personal experience, while I may be in Atlanta we have had some vicious cold snaps these past few winters including a couple weeks where the daily highs were in the mid 20sF. All of my Sarrs survived in my bogs unprotected. No mulch, no sheets, no nothing.