How to grow a CP terrarium without drainage?

[Listserv.org]

I've always wondered this. How does one start a terrarium without drainage? Don't CP's hate root rot? Wouldn't a terrarium induce a lack of proper drainage and root aeration?

I'm hoping that some experienced CP keepers would be able to clue me in on this. I currently have a setup where the pot is in a larger container (a container in a container for drainage), and I would like to upgrade my setup to a terrarium.

Thanks!

 

[Wolfn]

Well, most CPs grow in swamps and marshes so most are accustomed to water-logged soils.

However, I know you are eying Cephalotus and others, and the greatest enemy of Cephalotus is root-rot .

The following plants do not like waterlogged conditions:
Cephalotus
Byblis
Venus Fly Traps
Mexican butterworts
Nepenthes
Some species of sundews
Bromeliads

 

[Listserv.org]

So how would one grow Cephalotus in a terrarium?

 

[Wolfn]

So how would one grow Cephalotus in a terrarium?

two options:
1) don't
2) extremely careful watering


Also, Cephalotus have extremely long root systems, so you'll need about 5-10 inches deep of soil, maybe deeper

 

[swords]

What I do is put 2" of Hydroton clay balls (hydroponic medium) on the bottom of an undrained aquarium before laying down a sheet of nylon screen mesh and then either a forest soil mix (peat, bark and crushed oak leaves) or long fibered sphagnum moss. The excess water runs down into the clay balls and through capilary action the clay balls wick moisture back up to the soil layer slowly. I always build in a way to siphon off excess water incase I over water. My fail safe is simply using a rock large enough that it goes from the soils surface down to the mesh over the clay balls. Whenever I need to siphon off extra water I pull out the rock, stick my turkey baster down in the clay balls and suck up water with it until the excess water is down to the 1" depth I like it to be. This seems to keep the soil from fouling or staying too wet.

 

[Listserv.org]

Hi Swords, this is absolutely brilliant. Do you have a pic of your setup? Do you have a set of detailed instructions I'd be able to follow, or was this strictly your own invention? Thanks!

 

[swords]

I guess at the moment I don't have a picture of the removable rock after the tanks have been filled (have to wait til the lights come on later today) but here's two shots of the first steps.

Hydroton Hydroponic clay media (get at hydroponics shops and some orchid greenhouses) Put this on the bottom. You can use landscape rock to get the same drainage but it won't wick the water up like Hydroton does and will be very heavy, Hydroton is very lightweight and I can carry a fully planted 10 and 20 gallon tank around without too much trouble. With a rock bottom moving a filled tank would be almost impossible.

Nylon mosquito screen from Home Depot over the Hydroton:

Next add your soil ontop of this and landscape how you want and place a rock in a low spot near the front, lift the rock out and slit the mesh in a 1" "X" shape so you can easily access it with a turkey baster and you're all set. (I'll get a pic of that later today for you and put it below)

 

[James H]

I agree with swords for a way of building a terrarium without a drain. What I use to do was to put down a layer of the Hydro balls, a layer of either window screen or weed block fabric and in one corner I would put a slurpee straw or small diameter pvc pipe and that way I could put a piece of aquarium airline tubing into the pipe and siphon out the waste water. If you use a long enough piece of tubing for your siphon you can have the terrarium up on shelf at face level and drain the waste water into a bucket.

 

[Dexenthes]

If you're trying to grow some plants that do not appreciate water-logged conditions you can have their substrate slightly raised above the rest of the soil or moss or what have you.

Also I've found that if you are using living sphagnum moss as the substrate, there isn't really a problem with root rot so much. You don't necessarily need to water even, the moss retains all the humidity for a long time.

However, you are probably talking about Cephalotus, in which case, I would, as others have said, just be extra careful with your watering. Provide an area that is closer to the light, and higher than the rest of the substrate so that it dries out quicker, and you can water the mound with a spray bottle.

Of course you have to be somewhat dedicated to do that. It is simple though and doesn't involve an intricate setup.

 

[swords]

Here's those new pics:

How it looks with the rock in place:

And with the rock pulled up and the turkey baster put in to suck out excess water:

 

[RSS]

Here are a few threads I've posted about the various Vivariums I have set-up. I grow all my plants in vivariums of some type. Some of the tanks take alot of experience with the plants in the tanks to get them to grow where they are. So your milage will vary. For example, I can look at a section of driftwood and by the moisture it is wicking to that section I can tell what type of plants I can put there, years of trial and error allows me to grow things other will not be able to under the same conditions.


Ceph, growing in an open vivarium.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122053

My newest one, just put the Ceph's in there. No where near finished.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125069

Not a vivarium, but the container is inside a vivarium so it counts.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122166

A Ceph growing inside my main U. Graminifolia tank. It is still growing just VERY slow. Not a good envoirment for Cephs. Just trying to prove that Ceph roots in water are not the cause of rot . Its the lack of air to the roots in mixes that are not airy enough.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116479

Another odd thing I've done, the VFTs seem to like this setup, Ping/Drosera not so much. Ceph's are doing just fine in there. Very wet mediums, again airflow to the roots appears to be preventing the Ceph rot, still too eary to tell but I have not lost one Ceph in there. Heli's are doing ok, not good.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121824

Here is the main U. graminifolia tank, somewhere in that thread.
http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=115965

Another little vivairum, it doesn't look like that now, I've moved alot of it around and sold the Ceph off.
http://www.orchidboard.com/communit...-odd-little-vivarium-project-micro-minis.html

I also took some normal peat/sand/perlite mix and lightly placed 1 1/2" of the medium in a 2.5g tank. The soil is NOT compacted at all. Wetted it to what I think is the perfect moisture. Added some U. sandersonii tiny tiny scapes, sealed up 99% of the tank and forgot about it. The sandersonii is easily 1000X what I put in there 3 months ago. I have yet to water it again.

If thats not enough information, check out the poison dart frog forums, they have a TON of information about growing plants in vivariums. Some CPs are covered too.

Hope some of this helps, CPs can be grown in vivariums BUT you have to do your research first and set up the tank for what your growing.

---------- Post added at 06:27 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:03 PM ----------

Took some quick (and bad) photos of a few vivariums. I really need to add backgrounds and clean the glass.

This is probably 1/3rd of what I have, the last few months I've been doing some very heavy dividing/selling/trading so I have space for the plants to grow out in the winter months. The other 9 months there is no where near that much unused space .

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258850449/" title="016 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5045/5258850449_d793e166fe.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="016" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258849987/" title="014 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5125/5258849987_c0fc00ceeb.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="014" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258848355/" title="010 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5288/5258848355_4974329738.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="010" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5259456908/" title="011 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5167/5259456908_014d6a191d.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="011" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5259457786/" title="013 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5084/5259457786_9704d784f8.jpg" width="334" height="500" alt="013" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5259457384/" title="012 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5246/5259457384_eba1e92cae.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="012" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258846467/" title="003 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5207/5258846467_b6e7b14c88.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="003" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258847439/" title="008 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5250/5258847439_350ea8eb77.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="008" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5259455180/" title="007 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5001/5259455180_73ae8d50ae.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="007" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5258846743/" title="004 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5007/5258846743_6607902c00.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="004" /></a>

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/39807474@N07/5259456008/" title="009 by randallsimpson, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm6.static.flickr.com/5202/5259456008_f500f2bdd9.jpg" width="500" height="334" alt="009" /></a>

 

[jurow]

Awesome vivariums, RSS. Those are some really challenging plants, and it looks like you're doing an amazing job with them. I especially like your Utric. "shingles" in the second pic. Great way to maximize your space and take advantage of their natural growth tendencies.

I'm definitely going to check out all of your linked posts when I get a chance.

 

[RSS]

Awesome vivariums, RSS. Those are some really challenging plants, and it looks like you're doing an amazing job with them. I especially like your Utric. "shingles" in the second pic. Great way to maximize your space and take advantage of their natural growth tendencies.

I'm definitely going to check out all of your linked posts when I get a chance.

The plants hanging on those brown/black moss covered shingles are miniature ferns mounted on tree fern.

 

[dionae]

Those are some beautiful setups. Pic #2 catches my eye. The cubes of hanging moss looks cool.

 

[amphirion]

@RSS: what kinda of tree fern did you use? it looks like it has a very dense thickness. all the ones i've seen are loose and break apart into a thousand pieces when i try cutting them. what would you buy it as? a totem? plaque? what size? definitely going to use that if i ever get my hands on jamesoniana.

 

[RSS]

@RSS: what kinda of tree fern did you use? it looks like it has a very dense thickness. all the ones i've seen are loose and break apart into a thousand pieces when i try cutting them. what would you buy it as? a totem? plaque? what size? definitely going to use that if i ever get my hands on jamesoniana.

I got them off E-bay, just look for the ones labeled as dense. Check the photo's you should easily be able to see the difference between the normal ones and the dense ones. I ordered 18 6" X 6" pieces and about 10 of them were dense enough to cut up.

 

[jack]

I have a 5 gallon hex tank with cephalotus, D. hamiltonii, and D.pulchella. I have had this set up for 5 yrs with no problems. First I have lava rocks for a reservoir, very airie substraite (2 parts perlite/one part spagnum moss) losely pact, and a substraite depth of 4-5 inches. During the summer I flood the tank 2 or three times, the rest of the year I fill the reservoir (one inch) and let the water absorbe until the reservoir is empty and then I fill it again. lighting is by a cfl. I have never had any problems with this set up. I should also add that it is very important to use as mineral free water as possible, I use bottle water that has been distilled (for my terrarium only).

 

[amphirion]

i just caught this...you're using an ADA tank as a grow space? what a travesty! that's like using a bentley for moving furniture!

 

[swords]

Yup it's amazing how rarely you will actually water a planted terrarium. I mist or use the garden sprayer in mine every day because I have critters in them who need to drink but I rarely ever use the turkey baster to water the substrate.

I also use distilled for the substrate watering but R/O for misting just to ensure the soil is as clean as possible. Having a way to siphon out excess water allows you to periodically flood the substrate and thereby flush the soil somewhat. This seems to be very beneficial in such closed systems if you can engineer it in your setup.

 

[Lil Stinkpot]

I just saw this; how did I miss it?!?

RSS, Swords, anyone I missed, thank you for the pointers! I have that 6x3x2 monster that, while I can't afford to continue at the moment, plan on making a planted LL terrarium. THAT'S going to be a real project!