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A Historic Year for Flytrap Conservation

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Poachers are being charged with felonies for attempting to steal ~900 flytraps from a preserve in NC. This is the first enforcement of the state's new flytrap felony law.

http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20150105/ARTICLES/150109898/0/fast?p=1&tc=pg
http://www.wwaytv3.com/2015/01/05/four-men-charged-venus-flytrap-thefts
http://www.wect.com/story/27776371/wilmington-gardener-cares-for-stolen-venus-flytraps

Feel completely free to add anecdotes, opinions, further articles as you find them, etc.

....and make sure y'all do a dance to celebrate!! I am so ridiculously proud of the state of North Carolina!!
 
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I think the estimated value in the 3rd article of the haul, at least for the poachers is a bit off. $15,000.00 would put the plants at being worth between $10.00 and $20.00 each (depending on the REAL number of plants), which is at the very high end of retail. I can't imagine that these 4 "gentlemen" would stand to make more than $.50 per plant to whomever they planned on selling them to. The risk here is certainly not worth the meager reward (to be split 4 ways I can only assume). I hope this incident sets an example to any future would be poachers.
 
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I think the estimated value in the 3rd article of the haul, at least for the poachers is a bit off. $15,000.00 would put the plants at being worth between $10.00 and $20.00 each (depending on the REAL number of plants), which is at the very high end of retail. I can't imagine that these 4 "gentlemen" would stand to make more than $.50 per plant to whomever they planned on selling them to. The risk here is certainly not worth the meager reward (to be split 4 ways I can only assume). I hope this incident sets an example to any future would be poachers.

Also was wondering about the 15 grand. They said there were enough plants to fill a trash bag, backpack, and pillow sack. Also looked in one of the photos like a few might be Sarracenia purp ssp. venosa.

However, if the state wants to value them at more than 50 cents apiece, I'm down with that. Add in their worth in terms of genetic diversity and ecology and they're priceless in my thinking.
 

mato

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* off topic subject matter removed *

""Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire it is a dangerous servant and a terrible master." G. Washington"


You know, I couldn't tell if that was sarcasm at first, but then I saw your signature. So, I should hold my tongue, yet read that every time you make a post? I don't believe I revealed much about my political views with my comment, but the "quote" in your signature does reveal yours. Had I left "Tea Party" out of the comment, the implication would have been the same.

But now I can't help but ask, do you agree with those commenters who think there shouldn't be tough laws in place to protect these plants, as those laws are just another example of more government control over our lives? Because I can tell you right now, the reason so many of our native bogs have been destroyed is because of a lack of government oversight, allowing private entities to "develop" whatever land they feel like, or can purchase, and allowing people to destroy anything that isn't designated as being protected. And seeing as the punishment of these perpetrators is unprecedented, it reveals just how meaningless those protection statuses have been in the past.

Like everyone else commenting on this thread, I say "good job" to the authorities who enforced this law. It's the right precedent, and one that should deter it from occurring in the future. Likewise, I agree with the frustrations of those who pointed to the comments in the article, but I guess a :headwall: would have sufficed.
 
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However, if the state wants to value them at more than 50 cents apiece, I'm down with that.
I understand the need by authorities to pump up the price (the larger the $$$, the more serious the offense, the more publicity, the more justification, etc, etc). However, on the flip side, doesn't placing a higher value on them draw more low-lifes into poaching?

(Thoughts passing through a low-life's brain after reading article - Hmmm, I saw a bunch of those weird plants down the road in that open field - at 20 bucks a pop, I could get an easy $200 for 5 min work -- & nobody's gonna catch me ...)
 

SubRosa

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Well Mato would you like a list of species made endangered and extinct specifically because of government intervention?
 
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the reason so many of our native bogs have been destroyed is because of a lack of government oversight, allowing private entities to "develop" whatever land they feel like, or can purchase, and allowing people to destroy anything that isn't designated as being protected. And seeing as the punishment of these perpetrators is unprecedented, it reveals just how meaningless those protection statuses have been in the past.

Like everyone else commenting on this thread, I say "good job" to the authorities who enforced this law. It's the right precedent, and one that should deter it from occurring in the future.
I'm in a state where this is actively occurring, and I know folks who are out there making a good effort to stop it. Sadly, it's not too far from the truth. The part of the government that cares about conservation is greatly overpowered by the part that could care less. Same for the public, at least where I am.

I understand the need by authorities to pump up the price (the larger the $$$, the more serious the offense, the more publicity, the more justification, etc, etc). However, on the flip side, doesn't placing a higher value on them draw more low-lifes into poaching?

(Thoughts passing through a low-life's brain after reading article - Hmmm, I saw a bunch of those weird plants down the road in that open field - at 20 bucks a pop, I could get an easy $200 for 5 min work -- & nobody's gonna catch me ...)
That does make perfect sense. The cost could very well raise the stakes. It's at least a risk I feel needs to be taken, because the poaching pressure prior to the law was extreme.

The effectiveness of the law will depend greatly upon the ability of the state to enforce it. And if assaults on the VFT increase, I would *hope* that there would be a response with greater budgets for increased monitoring, rewards for poaching reports, private citizen involvement, and ultimately better enforcement.
 

SubRosa

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I'm in a state where this is actively occurring, and I know folks who are out there making a good effort to stop it. Sadly, it's not too far from the truth. The part of the government that cares about conservation is greatly overpowered by the part that could care less. Same for the public, at least where I am.


That does make perfect sense. The cost could very well raise the stakes. It's at least a risk I feel needs to be taken, because the poaching pressure prior to the law was extreme.

The effectiveness of the law will depend greatly upon the ability of the state to enforce it. And if assaults on the VFT increase, I would *hope* that there would be a response with greater budgets for increased monitoring, rewards for poaching reports, private citizen involvement, and ultimately better enforcement.
I'm sorry but I fail to see how placing a dollar value on the plants makes any positive difference. It definitely will give people ideas about easy money, but as far as deterrence? The punishment itself, be it fines, incarceration, etc is the deterrent. The placing of a high dollar amount does nothing else except perhaps stir up emotions in some people, and emotions are a truly poor basis for laws and punishment. This is because the emotional reaction of people to a given stimulus varies greatly. I can guarantee that a vast majority of people would not wish to live under laws based upon my emotions, and DEFINITELY not want to be punished based upon them, anymore than I would wish to live under laws based upon theirs. The only rational basis for laws is the violation of rights, and the only rational basis for punishment is the relative severity of the violation.
 
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SubRosa

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About my signature: The ability to control fire was one of, if not the very first step humans made towards civilization. I (and I believe any serious person) would consider that a very good thing. However fire out of control I (and again, I believe any serious person) would consider a very bad thing. All Mr Washington did was identify the fundamental nature of how government works, and notice and point out how fire and government are identical in the dichotomy of being both good and bad.
 
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I'm sorry but I fail to see how placing a dollar value on the plants makes any positive difference. It definitely will give people ideas about easy money, but as far as deterrence? The punishment itself, be it fines, incarceration, etc is the deterrent. The placing of a high dollar amount does nothing else except perhaps stir up emotions in some people, and emotions are a truly poor basis for laws and punishment. This is because the emotional reaction of people to a given stimulus varies greatly. I can guarantee that a vast majority of people would not wish to live under laws based upon my emotions, anymore than I would wish to live under laws based upon theirs. The only rational basis for laws is the violation of rights, and the only rational basis for punishment is the relative severity of the violation.

I see no upside to it either, but it does likely increase the media attention. Just not necessarily in a good way, it likely mostly results in just giving people bad ideas. The penalty and reason for it being a crime are what should be focused on.
 

Dexenthes

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Wow this is quite a story. Felony charges... Those guys can't go to Canada anymore! Looks like they wont be able to poach fur seals in the off-season.

It's good to hear that wetlands protection are putting people in jail. I wish there were was this level of governmental protection for all the endangered ecosystems of the world. . .

The comments on that article though; I am amazed and frightened that there are such people that feel the need to say the things that they did there. :scratch:
 
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