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The Horror...The Horror (of Mutant Flytraps)

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  • #22
I mean if there's such a thing as vegan cat food..........

Talk about a truly aweful idea. Cats are obligate carnivores by design. They are not meant for a vegan diet.
 
  • #23
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  • #24
Haha one good thing is these freaky flytraps make for entertaining threads
 
  • #25
I'm curious do you guys feel the same way about chihuahuas? They can no longer hunt deer and elk in packs... it kind of seems like the same exact issue to me.
 
  • #26
Dexenthes it's completely different. In the case of the Chihuahua you are starting with an omnivorous species and not an obligate carnivore. Breeding for appearance and/or behavior doesn't alter the fundamental metabolic processes of the animal, it simply produces an animal far less suited to meeting its own needs. Choosing a consistent vegan lifestyle which truly respects all animalis a choice that should preclude the ownership of creatures metabolically unsuited to it. But the desire to have one's cake and eat it to is a trait not restricted to any one group.
 
  • #27
lol... umm

I'm not sure what point you have in there - the only difference is that one is a plant and one is an animal. I wasn't aware that Dionaea cultivars had their metabolic processes altered during the selective breeding process, any more so than a dog would. Wolves are barely omnivorous, I might add. Also all carnivorous plants are not "obligate carnivores", seeing as they still all have roots that engage in nutrient uptake as well as leaves that engage in photosynthesis. Both the roots and the leaves do more for the plant than the traps because as we all know, very few carnivorous plants actually needs to feed to survive, it just helps them thrive. Furthermore from an ethical standpoint some dog breeds seem to be much more of abominations in a literal sense than these plants are, in my eyes. Take German Shepherds, for instance, they almost always suffer from hip disease and have shorter lives riddled with pain in their latter years and they are often put down. Mean while the freak Dionaea could just keep growing . . .
 
  • #28
Oh jeebus......... please see post #22.
 
  • #29
lol... umm

I'm not sure what point you have in there - the only difference is that one is a plant and one is an animal. I wasn't aware that Dionaea cultivars had their metabolic processes altered during the selective breeding process, any more so than a dog would. Wolves are barely omnivorous, I might add. Also all carnivorous plants are not "obligate carnivores", seeing as they still all have roots that engage in nutrient uptake as well as leaves that engage in photosynthesis. Both the roots and the leaves do more for the plant than the traps because as we all know, very few carnivorous plants actually needs to feed to survive, it just helps them thrive. Furthermore from an ethical standpoint some dog breeds seem to be much more of abominations in a literal sense than these plants are, in my eyes. Take German Shepherds, for instance, they almost always suffer from hip disease and have shorter lives riddled with pain in their latter years and they are often put down. Mean while the freak Dionaea could just keep growing . . .

If you can't see the hypocrisy and or disregard required to make a carnivore into a vegan, no amount of changing the subject to the genetic anomalies of dogs is going to help...........
 
  • #30
You would need a huge handbag to accommodate a wolf, and it would most likely eat your friends chihuahau
 
  • #31
If you can't see the hypocrisy and or disregard required to make a carnivore into a vegan, no amount of changing the subject to the genetic anomalies of dogs is going to help...........

Yeah I do see the hypocrisy in that. I don't remember ever bringing that subject up though. For me this debate has always been about selective breeding.

The only point I am trying to make is that selective breeding is selective breeding, we do it to countless organisms and many of them become biologically 'defunct' and require our care in order to survive. These fly traps are no different than cats or dogs, chickens, geese, GMO crops, or what-have-you. If left to fend for themselves in the bog, these trapless plants would eventually get selected against instead of for, just as tiny dogs would go the way of the dodo if left in the wild and polish chickens would evolve away from having vision blocking plumage.

I'm just very amused to see such animosity towards such a small and (truly) harmless bunch of plants! :lol:
 
  • #32
Isn't the point of cultivars to be distinctly different I see why no traps will silly though I would take one I really like strange plants
 
  • #33
Selective breeding ? This was about tissue cultured mutations............... which you attempted to relate to selectively breeding dogs. I honestly can't even imagine how you could even equate the two things. Now, if someone were to stick a black lab into a jar of chemicals and come out with a bunch of 6 legged, headless clones that people were gaga over and willing to pay obscene amounts of money to own, then maybe I could see your argument.
 
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  • #34
I'm curious do you guys feel the same way about chihuahuas? They can no longer hunt deer and elk in packs... it kind of seems like the same exact issue to me.

Chihuahua are deadly little dogs, they have choked many a German Shepherd etc
 
  • #35
Selective breeding ? This was about tissue cultured mutations............... which you attempted to relate to selectively breeding dogs. I honestly can't even imagine how you could even equate the two things. Now, if someone were to stick a black lab into a jar of chemicals and come out with a bunch of 6 legged, headless clones that people were gaga over and willing to pay obscene amounts of money to own, then maybe I could see your argument.

Headless dogs you say? That would certainly cut down on unwanted barking. And the food bill. And the need for walking.
 
  • #36
Headless dogs you say? That would certainly cut down on unwanted barking. And the food bill. And the need for walking.

Indeed. But would you want to own one ?
 
  • #37
Isn't the point of cultivars to be distinctly different I see why no traps will silly though I would take one I really like strange plants

And if you were willing to pay me an inordinate sum for one I obtained at what I think it's worth, I would happily sell it to you!
 
  • #38
Indeed. But would you want to own one ?

Considering what I think are the basic requirements for a dog to earn his food, not barking before biting wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, but the not biting just wouldn't do!
 
  • #39
I normally try to stay out of stuff like this but I think you guys are missing Dexenthes point. Yea tissue culture and selective breeding are two very different things, but someone chose to keep those cultivars alive after the tissue culture process. That's just as much selection as someone selecting a certain dog because you like a certain trait. The methods before selection are different but in the end it's still selection. I also don't see why you felt the need to attack these varieties of flytraps in the first place. Yea you guys may not like them but OP was simply asking which flytrap cultivars and varieties can't close their traps effectivly enough to feed. A simple "these types can't close or use their traps effectively...etc" would've been fine. But, you had to start listing off how much you despise these flytraps, which in my experience is going to promote an ill tempered debate and backlash. Personally I enjoy the weird deformed clones, but that's my opinion. I think everyone on this forum needs to exibit a little bit more caution when listing personal opinions. I lurk quite a bit and notice that opinions tend to be stated very degradingly towards opposing opinions... I understand that it's constructive to hear everyone's opinion but before you post think about how you sound and if what you're saying really even relates to the original post...
 
  • #40
I normally try to stay out of stuff like this but I think you guys are missing Dexenthes point. Yea tissue culture and selective breeding are two very different things, but someone chose to keep those cultivars alive after the tissue culture process. That's just as much selection as someone selecting a certain dog because you like a certain trait. The methods before selection are different but in the end it's still selection. I also don't see why you felt the need to attack these varieties of flytraps in the first place. Yea you guys may not like them but OP was simply asking which flytrap cultivars and varieties can't close their traps effectivly enough to feed. A simple "these types can't close or use their traps effectively...etc" would've been fine. But, you had to start listing off how much you despise these flytraps, which in my experience is going to promote an ill tempered debate and backlash. Personally I enjoy the weird deformed clones, but that's my opinion. I think everyone on this forum needs to exibit a little bit more caution when listing personal opinions. I lurk quite a bit and notice that opinions tend to be stated very degradingly towards opposing opinions... I understand that it's constructive to hear everyone's opinion but before you post think about how you sound and if what you're saying really even relates to the original post...
I guess the main reason I see no problem whatsoever with insulting plants mercilessly is because it won't hurt their feelings. I accept no responsibility for anyone elses.
 
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