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sanguinea or hybrid?

Tell me what you think. This plant is supposed to be Nepenthes sanguinea. Personally I think it looks like what I would expect the natural hybrid of N. sanguinea x ramispina to look like given its color and elongated pitchers. Agree disagree? I like it either way.

Rich

The picher

sangpitcher.jpg


Leaf attachment

sangleafattach.jpg


Whole Plant

sangplant.jpg
 
I would agree that it is not a straight N. sanguinea. It does look like it has some N. ramispina in it. Nice pitchers regardless.

xvart.
 
Not pure N. sanguinea I would have to say a very good possibility with N. ramispina as a possible parent. The leafes show very good traits of both species.
 
How big are the pitchers ?
Smaller pitchers seem to be more alongated then the big ones. Although the pale green inner surfice does suspect some ramispina...
 
The larger pitcher is 9" or 23 cm from bottom to top of lid. The smaller pitcher is 5.5" or 14 cm.
 
The leaves don't look that sanguinea like to me. I agree about it being a ramispina/sanguinea hybrid.
 
why do you all say that it is a hybrid, and not just ramispina? Sanguinea I grow, and that plant is not it. Isn't ramispina in the same family, however? Looking at the pictures in BobZ photo finder, it seems to strongly resembles a ramispina.
 
why do you all say that it is a hybrid, and not just ramispina?

Good question. I suppose I am just assuming that this is at least partially sanguinea because I trust the source I got it from. However, hybrids do have a way of popping up in batches of seedlings.

Things that make me think it is not pure ramispina are:
1. The lid is very oval. I think ramispina tends to have a very round lid
2. This is a young plant that is already producing a 23 cm pitcher. I believe ramispina tends to max out around 20 cm
3. You can't see it in the picture but the spur is branched.
4. The peristome is a little bit wider than typical ramispina.

Superficially though, when I look at this pitcher I see ramispina more than sanguinea which is why I thought it must be a hybrid.

Just to confuse things - in Charles Clarke's Nepenthes of Sumatra, the picture of N. sanguinea on page 181 looks a lot like my plant. He does say in the text that hybrids with ramispina can be difficult to distinguish. Ultimately this question might depend on what the range of variability of N. sanguinea is in the field. Having never been to peninsular Malaysia I don't have any real opinion.

Cheers,
Rich
 
Correction - I just double checked my references and it looks like I'm confused about branched spurs. It looks like the branched spur would be supportive of ramispina in the background. I'll try to post a picture of it if anyone besides me cares.

That same picture I was talking about also appears on page 28 of a Guide to the Pitcher Plants of Peninsular Malaysia
 
  • #10
i have no clue. i have a young sanguinea 'orange' and it looks just like it (structure wise). the hook on the back is different than on yours than on my sanguinea. on mine it "sorta branches" but its not as pronounced as a ramispina or yours.
IMG_0538.jpg

IMG_0541.jpg

Alex
 
  • #11
Alex, thanks for the picture of your sanguinea's spur. Since this is the only plant I have labeled sanguinea it is good to have something to compare to. The text does say that sanguinea's spur can be branched "when short".

Here is a closeup of the spur on the larger pitcher
sangspur1.jpg


And here is a closeup of the spur on the next developing pitcher
sangspur2.jpg


For comparison, here is a spur form A plant that believe is actually ramispina though the plant is still quite immature (pitchers about 3 cm)
ramispinaspur.jpg
 
  • #12
it looks like ramispina is a lot less hairy too. my sanguinea is very hairy.
Alex
 
  • #13
Hi Rich,
Long time , no chat.
If you go further into Bob's site(hybrids) you can find pics of these two. These two urls are actually the reverse cross, but the coloration and some characeristics seem to supposrt your opinion. I thought these were more revealing than the sanguinea x ramispina photos

http://www.cpuk.org/~vicbrown/images/Nepenthes/ramispinaxsanguinea.jpg

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/wb.sherren/other photos/N. ramispina x sanguinea.jpg


But since I am there, here is a photo of Sanguinea x ramispina:

http://i52.photobucket.com/albums/g30/Leilani_10/DSCF0031-1.jpg

It seems easy for some of the Malaysian Peninsular speices to hybridize, one wonders if even a sanguinea x [sanguinea x ramipina] can get in one's collection from seed collected from a female sanguinea.
Whatever it is, it is gorgeous plant.

Cheers,

Joe

PS Here is Bob Ziemer's CP photobase for viewing pleasure.

http://www.humboldt.edu/~rrz7001/
 
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