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  • Thread starter brisco225
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  • #21
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It should be clear to anyone who was paying attention that Matt's comments were misconstrued by some moderators and forum members.........It was all there for people who were online at the time to see, but most people were busy feeding off the moderator's inappropriate wrath (based on their own misinterpretation of Matt's cryptic humor) rather than making an attempt to understand what he really meant and realize their mistake.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think so.  Matt gave no indication that what he said meant other than what was printed.  If he ment other than what he said he should have indicated it.  I saw no 'jk' or 'j/k' or 'just kidding' stated anywhere.  One of the things he later stated he was kidding about was in poor taste to say the least and showed a big lapse in judgement on his part.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I feel that it is unacceptable for any people anywhere to gang up on someone because of a simple misunderstanding or personal differences and to then prevent them from addressing false accusations.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

A simple understanding wouldn't be getting this blasted much attention from me.  Simple understandings I forgive and forget.  One's that someone try's to cover their butt on and put all the blaim on somebody else make my blood boil and I do not forgive until I think they are truely sorry for what they have done and take responsibility for their actions.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is an unfair place where such an injustice is allowed to happen.  Any one of you would have done exactly as Matt tried to do.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

I don't think so.  In a whole year of posting, I have not managed to alianate so many people and cause so much distress to the moderators, administrators, and fellow board members as matt did in that posting.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The fact that you are still kicking someone who is down and can't properly defend himself is a disgrace.  The parties involved should be ashamed for bullying someone like that when you won't even let his explanation stay up so that others can make a less partial assessment of what occurred.
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
I read his explanation.  It was everybody elses fault that he was misunderstood.  uh huh. yeah.

locationis, It's probably a good thing the post was deleted or Matt would be getting an earful from a lot more people.
 
  • #22
For what it's worth.. PFT's mods aren't the only ones who have had to do something about Matt's behavior.. his posts about this topic in other forums have been locked as well..
 
  • #23
*sigh*

There are some people who are making judgements about a situation when they *do not know all the facts*.  If you missed the thread...you missed it. Sorry!  So those who missed it (and you should be glad you did), you can't make a fair judgement about it.  I don't think thats a big deal. It was a thread that got off topic, got heated, got warned to get back on topic...it didn't.  It was deleted, not for "censorship" (that's SO silly! ), but to keep the boards on track.

Like Phil said, other people are NOW hearing *one side* of the story AFTER the issue was close here.  If that happened in a court room, you'd be outraged.

Its very simple....there was no personal vendetta involved as its being portrayed.  It was off topic and argumentative.  It was directed to go back on topic.  It wasn't.  So it was deleted.

QUOTE:  "The fact that you are still kicking someone who is down and can't properly defend himself is a disgrace."

Hmmm...can't property defend himself....  Poor Mr. X. I guess that same "disgrace" doesn't apply to Mr. X when he goes to at least two other discussion boards and publicly spews his one-sided venom to an audience totally unrelated to the issue. That was so immature and rude to those other communities...why involve them in a beef they have nothing to do with?   Why??  Because it gave him an audience who didn't have a clue what was going on... and no way for the "other side" to be presented for a fair judgement (you know..."kick 'em when they're down").  He's got free rein to bad mouth to a new audience (who, BTW, also hasn't had the benefit of reading the entire thread to understand the issue).  Yep...its such a shame Mr. X can't defend himself HERE...like PFT can't defend itself THERE.

I would like to add that the forum that Mr. X just joined...that by his own admission, VERY rarely edits posts or closes topics...did JUST THAT to Mr. X's diatribe against PFT.  One post was edited and then the topic was closed.  WHY?  Because it was ugly and argumentative!  Gee...doesn't that sound familiar??!  Admins doing their job...keeping the posts decent.  Here, it's being called "censorship" by Mr. X.  I wonder what he called it over there...good administration I guess.  Join a forum and within 1-2 days you have your topic edited and shut down. Good start with that group.

Mr. X is a talented grower who's input could be valuable if he would learn not to sling thinly veiled insults at forum members and cause controversy.  If he could learn to keep it about the PLANTS, he could be a great help.  It really is a shame.

This is a dead horse.  Why can't we agree to disagree and let this horse be buried.

The admins and mods spends HOURS and HOURS of their time freely given... no pay, no perks....just hard core dedication...in order to keep this forum open to help new growers and offer suggestions, so we can all share experiences, make friends, laugh and post pics and support one another in good and hard times...thousands and thousands of topics and posts and advice...for THIS....  Who hasn't ever gotten help?  Or received a plant they reeeally wanted by a generous donor?  Or learned a new technique?  Or made a good friend? Or gotten free seeds or gemmae?  Mods are human...mods make mistakes...but over all, we work #### hard to have this venue and get few thanks for it.  (We do get some...thanks Michelle&#33
wink.gif


Shame on you who let one person, one thread, tarnish all the GOOD that's being done here (ESPECIALLY, I might add, for the newbies who need the help but get all but ignored on some other boards)!

sad.gif
 Its all about love of the plants and one another as people with a common interest and goals.

Suzanne
 
  • #24
Dear all,

I am a moderator too and I read the posts in the moderators' forum. True, there are times when they complain about a certain person but it ALWAYS end with "this is just my personal opinion, just letting off steam..."

I'm thankful for the other mods because they, mostly americans, are more vocal than me.  People who know where I'm from know that my freedom of speech is limited...very limited as compared to what you have, even on this forum. The mods speak their minds, hiding nothing. Such transparency! And they are very just(fair) people too.  Everytime there's a "problem case", there would a LONG debate before that person is banned....with at least a handful mods having contacted the fellow and heard his side of the story.

So let me, an outsider...being non-american and so very far away, make my 2 cents worth...

1st cent: Mods are not paid by PFT.com so there's no need to take sides.  Being here is basically, altruistic. And the mods read line by line, word for word to keep this place suitable even for young children.

2nd cent: I'm a teacher too and I often tell my students: With freedom, comes responsibility.  With freedom to own guns, come many gun-deaths in American schools because the adults are not responsible in keeping their guns under lock and key (sorry for having to pick the States as an example). Having the freedom of speech here needs great responsibility and of course, that takes maturity. If the maturity of the person is less than that of the young children here, then...

By the way, the mods haven't banned any children yet right?
 
  • #25
Shouldn't we stop on this war? I mean there are enough wars in the world nowadays. We need to swipe the slate clean and start back where there was a fresh positive attitude. And besides Phil created this website for us, let's not let him down or abuse this site or it'll be gone.

Have a good day.
 
  • #26
Hey fellow members, something interesting is about to happen!













We are going to move on.
smile.gif
 
  • #27
I kind of have to look for the humor in all of this (it's my nature). This is a carnivorous plant forum. Isn't that funny. Let's all get back to what we do best.
 
  • #28
I know Matt very well.  If he tells you he was not insinuating anything by his post, then he is telling the truth.  He is not a liar and neither am I.  None of you know him so how dare you prolong this matter insisting that he meant to insult you moderators when he did not and he clearly stated he did not.  If you left the thread intact, maybe more people would have initially misinterpreted his words, but they would have been able to see, based on his reiteration, that his sense of humor did not translate as he intended and that some people got offended based on their distorted view of what he said.  This turned into something it should not have become based on some people's a lack of respect and appreciation for a very important community member.  Perhaps he is not so important here on this forum, but that does not at all justify this.  The actual thread is what this SHOULD be all about, NOT a personal attack which is still being continued by moderators and the owner of this site.  This is what I most strongly object to and I feel that this is what will cue others to leave this forum as well and take their business somewhere where people are given the benefit of the doubt and not slammed for being misunderstood.

I am sure that Matt does not need to participate in this forum in order to feel a sense of self worth.  I am also sure that none of you would appreciate being told what you meant to say without being given the opportunity to speak.  You are STILL trying to discredit him and it's very troubling.  Matt's reason for contributing to the thread was solely to teach people to respect others and the result has been a shameful shower of disrespect upon him.  

Purplesundew, the thread on the CP UK forum was locked to prevent further unfair judgments by people who did not know the facts.  This is what caused the now deleted thread to escalate.  Matt's posts were obviously viewed as valid by the fair moderators of that forum and his thoughts were allowed to remain, which is the difference between the CP UK forum and this one.  Here, in light of recent events, it is becoming clear that there's a twisted sense of self importance felt by some moderators and that they will do whatever they can in order to strong-arm others into silence when they should be allowed the right to reply to insults.  Maybe you didn't see RAM's blatant and unnecessary abuse of Matt, but I did and I would have been furious had he said those things to me, just as I am furious that you are all backing him up here when the situation was absolutely mishandled.

Plantakiss, you are absolutely right.  Some people here do not know all the facts, and, with all due respect, you appear to be one of them, as do most of the people who have been most vocal in this personal attack.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Like Phil said, other people are NOW hearing *one side* of the story AFTER the issue was closed here.  If that happened in a court room, you'd be outraged.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Exactly, just as Matt should be outraged that he is not being allowed to tell his side of the story here and to reply to these continued accusations he tried to reply to before.  Matt is an intelligent person.  Let him back in here to explain himself, if he even wants to be any part of this terribly slanted forum anymore, and hear what he has to say.  That's the only somewhat FAIR solution at this point.  There is no fairness in misinterpreting his words and intent, which were hastily deleted by a trigger happy moderator in an effort to eject him.  Sundewmatt is a very knowledgeable member of the CP community, who I should add has a lot more knowledge and experience than most moderators and forum members and happens to be a very nice and helpful person, IF you treat him with the respect every human being deserves.  Don't chase him into a corner as people have clearly done here now and in the past and expect him to smile back at you.

How can you say there was no personal vendetta involved when several of the moderators have cited Matt's previous disagreements here as evidence that he deserved to be banned?  He was clearly not banned from this forum based only on his contribution to that thread.  When the thread was still up, one moderator insisted that posts are never edited unless they contain profanity and quickly thereafter, his post was removed (read edited) by a moderator regardless of the fact that it was free of profanity and totally contradicted what another moderator insisted was fact.  Maybe this forum would be better with only one moderator so that there is more consistency, resulting in a more believable perspective.  Instead, this appears to be a of a bunch of friends getting together and trying to defend one another for unfairly bashing someone when their misperception of the whole situation is one sided and inconsistent with the facts.

If you did not want "Mr. X" to explain the situation elsewhere, then you would not have shut him out to prevent him from explaining himself HERE on this forum.  The audience in the other forums is not totally unrelated.  Many of the prominent CP growers who read this forum read the others as well.  How can you blame someone for wanting to clear the air to erase the terrible picture you are still painting of him?

I don't care whether moderators are paid or not.  The same can be said for us people who contribute to this list, no matter how small the contribution, and every single one of us should be treated with the respect you and I would like to be treated with.  I won't contribute here anymore because you are seeing things only the way you want to see them and your hostility and misjudgment is all too evident to any intelligent, unbiased onlookers.  Your site might be important to you and the kids who seek answers to beginner questions, but the fact that you not only disrespect but also exclude an intelligent member of the community and then continue to talk negatively about him indicates that this is not a place where I would like to contribute anymore.

Matt has told me that he does not have time for all of this and that he is considering discontinuing his involvement in the CP community because he feels it has become more trouble than it is worth dealing with people's egos and the resulting conflicts.  This would be a real shame and I hope for all of us that this is not the case, but after this incident, I can definitely understand why he would make such a decision.
 
  • #29
I say again...we agree to disagree.
smile.gif
Everyone has a right to their opinions. I stand by what I said.

NOW...back to the plants! I have a newbie PM that needs attending to.
smile.gif


Suzanne
 
  • #30
So, how is the weather around the globe? Sunny and warm here in Nebraska!

biggrin.gif


Joe
 
  • #31
I think maybe the rules here are not specific enough..

I am a member of several on-line forums, and one is TOTALLY peacefull! and yet is also very active..

the rule is simple.."this forum is about garden railroads..period..no other topics"

so sometimes people stray and bring up OT topics..like during the recent war sometimes topics would stray into politics and get very heated..the moderator would step in with "you all know the rules..if you want to talk politics thats fine, just take it elsewhere..email each other directly or find a forum about politics, there are billions of them..this thread is locked"

then people cool down and drop it..and the conversation gets back to where it belongs..that one simple rule keeps things VERY peaceful! and people simply dont WANT to talk about anything other than trains!

Maybe this forum needs to be "CP topics only"..even lose the "general topics" forum where *anything* can be discussed..or make it "general CP discussion"..personally I dont CARE what anyone here thinks about politics or anything else! I wouldnt mind if ALL threads here were about CPs only..if that simple rule were made, it could be enforced without question..

"this thread is wandering off topic, it is no longer about CPs, it will be locked now"
end of story! in that case, the moderator is simply enforcing the rule that EVERYONE agrees with! no room for debate, no grey areas..

also, personal attacks or rudeness warrant a locked thread..even if the arguement is about CPs! (although usually when personal attacks start, that automatically becomes "off topic")

also, IMO a thread should NEVER be deleted outright! that only feeds the controversy and makes things much worse! because people then begin to speculate about what happened, and the "truth" (being the thread in question, and everyones actual words) are gone..thats bad.

only profanity or swearing should be deleted outright..all the "fights" should always remain..just lock the thread, nothing more..

thats my view.
Scot
 
  • #32
What the heck is Censorship???,

I don't want to get into polotics because My head hurts when I do. I just hope I ain't gonna be in Jury duty in my later years
biggrin.gif
 
  • #33
Scot,

I agree with most of what you are saying.  Matt probably did add comments which were not necessary, but he felt they supported his points and had a right to express himself because it did support the thread and did not initially violate guidelines. He also decided to add some humor others didn't get. RAM went off on Matt because he misunderstood and had previous "beef" with Matt and it was totally uncool.  Then others jumped in like it was a free-for-all.  This is not civilized behavior.  It would have been one thing to say "end of discussion" but to say it after throwing false accusations and scolding Matt for something he did not say or do only added insult to injury.  The right to free speech and lack of censorship should have been allowed and this would not have become what it has.  Here, on this very forum, there is a one-sided presentation of something which others here are criticizing Matt of doing elsewhere, not because he wanted to, but because he was FORCED to take it elsewhere in order to be heard. It is disturbing to see people are still ignoring that which Matt stated as fact (his intent), if they even had the opportunity to see it before it was removed.
 
SOMEONE here must have a copy of the entire thread, no? If not, WHY? I agree, it's extremely important to arm people with facts instead of feeding them with propaganda.
 
  • #34
It would have been one thing to say "end of discussion"

Locatonis, THAT was tried. Matt didn't comply with the requests and he was also told to take this up privately and he further did not read what was being told to him nicely.

because he was FORCED to take it elsewhere in order to be heard.

he was not forced, he had multiple chances to re-think his future actions but he had to insist he was right on all his accusations in the topic.

That's all I have left to say. Belive what you must belive and think what you must think.

All in all I am putting this behind me, suggest we all continue on with this hobby.

Have a good day everyone.
 
  • #35
Do some of you people not understand the words Enough or Move On??!!
When a topic is locked by a moderator it is an attempt to calm that subject down and let it die a natural death. I do not understand why everyone feels so compelled to comment on what was a very personal matter and never should have been public in the beginning. The thread was removed because there were personal attacks that should not have been publicly aired. Why in the world would this board leave such comments for all to see? It was not censorship...it was to preserve peace here and avoid this forum getting a reputation as a place you can come to personally attack another individual and/or the owner of this site. The free speech issue is nonsense. Even in America you cannot yell "Fire!" in a crowded theater when there is no fire. Nor can you incite a riot by speech. And believe it or not there are reasonable limits and rules that can be enforced by someone who privately runs a forum such as this. All members here are given huge leeway with comments and opinions. No one here cares if people disagree but personal attacks will not be tolerated. This is not the place for that type of action/behavior. This is a community built and based on friendship and kindness.
For those of you piping up on a subject you do not have first hand information and all the facts about....well...that doesn't even make much sense. But you are welcome to your opinions however misinformed they may be.
This entire subject really does need to be put to sleep. I personally am annoyed by it being opened up yet again in spite of requests to let this matter rest. Once again, can we please Move On, Move Forward!!
 
  • #36
Matt has been offered the opportunity to post again.

That's all I have to say in the matter.

heh.. get it MATTer.

lol

I crack me up sometimes.
 
  • #37
Greenhouse1,

You accused someone of making what you misstrued to be a personal attack. This is something you say you feel does not belong on this forum. However, you are now justifying the much harsher (and actually intended) personal attack moderators (RAM and others, possibly yourself) here made on the person they wrongly assumed was attacking all of them. This is hypocritical. You can PM me if you need help understanding this.

Everyone has been ignoring this quote I made:

"It would have been one thing to say "end of discussion" but to say it after throwing false accusations and scolding Matt for something he did not say or do only added insult to injury. "

Please PM me if you don't understand so I can clarify.

Then you said:

"For those of you piping up on a subject you do not have first hand information and all the facts about....well...that doesn't even make much sense. But you are welcome to your opinions however misinformed they may be.
"

I can assure you, I have all the first hand information I need as I was fortunate enough to read the thread in its entirety. That includes the deleted posts which few people were given the opportunity to read.

I consider a thread closed once people have acknowledged what I have said. This means reading it, understanding it, and taking my factual account of something as fact. Not as something to be overlooked because of biases which have been allowed to effect the way in which a member of this community has been treated. Matt is right for attempting to fix a situation which others intentionally distorted.

Locking a thread only draws more attention to the fact that there is in fact censorship going on in this forum and is an insult to anyone who appreciates intelligent debate. This is a discussion of something which occured here and the way moderators mishandled it. Nothing about my contributions or those of the other opponents to your stand in this thread or matter should be seen as improper or not deserving consideration and a proper reply. The only comments which were out of place here were the ones continuing an attack on someone not given the ability to defend himself.
 
  • #38
locationis, are you Matt?
 
  • #39
Dyflam,

Is it the fact that someone else sees the situation for what it really was rather than what moderators turned into that makes you think I am Matt? Give me a break! If ever I want to get my thoughts here deleted, I will pretend to be Matt!
 
  • #40
hahaha Oh I find some of this hillarious Locationis.

*Ugh why an I giving into this and even posting here?*

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Matt's reason for contributing to the thread was solely to teach people to respect others and the result has been a shameful shower of disrespect upon him.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>  

Im not sure how exactly you figure he was trying to teach anyone respect while he was constantly disrespecting the mods and this forum but I guess you wouldnt know about that or did he share all of his dissagreeances with you before you made this decission?

UGh ok I give up you know Greenhouse1, a few of the mods  as well as some of the forum members here have all expressed their wishes to drop this you heard our side although it doesnt seem to be sinking in for some reason
confused.gif
what more can be said on the matter?

Before I finish this I want everyone here to know that Ram did not bann Matt all on his own I was the one who suggested it be done. I was tired of having to baby sit his posts. Every time he came here he either tried to promote his own business and sales or pick apart the mods. Why would we keep him here? I didnt see a reason to, the bad outweighed the good. So please realize that Ram was just doing his job I assure you he does not enjoy having to put on his Admin hat and having to boot people from this forum.

Sorry Ram Im not sure why you are taking all the blame here.

Now with that being said please note that it was not just the thread in question that we made our decission on. Im sorry if you do not agree perhaps for a second you could try and put yourselves in our shoes. If that doesnt help in seeing the whole picture and you still believe we mods are a bunch of censoring tyrants well then Im sorry.
 
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