Question - Ants on Nepenthes

[Redjack Ryan]

This morning I just noticed a couple small black ants on my Nepenthes. They seemed attracted to the tiny beads of nectar that formed on the underside of the leaves. I just checked the plant a few minutes ago and now the plant has a large number of the ants on it, all sucking on the nectar beads. I can see they're coming from outside in through the window.

Can the ants harm the plant? Should I try to get rid of them? Any hints or knowledge would be helpful.

Thanks,

- Alex

 

[polywer2345]

it's fine, once they are drunk with nectar they will most likelyf fall in the pitcher, check daily

 

[xvart]

No. Ants and Nepenthes form a symbiotic relationship in the wild. Well, maybe not symbiotic, but they certainly won't harm your plant. If anything, some may fall in and feed your Nepenthes. I would be more worried about where else the ants are going.

xvart.

 

[Redjack Ryan]

Thanks for the replies so far. They didn't look as though they were harming the plant. It just recently started pitchering so none of them have opened yet. Its pitchers are 3/4" - 1" long.

I wish they'd find their way up to my hanging one above it. Its 6" pitchers look hungry.

- Alex

 

[Clint]

They don't get drunk. They slip and fall. In two species (N. aristolochioides and N. klosii) they are tricked by light.

 

[Capensis]

They don't get drunk. They slip and fall. In two species (N. aristolochioides and N. klosii) they are tricked by light.

Actually, I've read somewhere that scientists don't know the reason why they get drunk.

 

[Its_a_friday]

I left my ventrata outside on the ground last year for the whole summer, no ants fell into the pitchers, only centipedes, pill bugs, and slugs.

 

[Clint]

I'm sure you did read that. I'm also sure that Nepenthes do not produce any known compounds that have any narcotic/debilitating effect at this time. The only CP that is known to produce anything is S. flava, which produces a Coniine.

Show me a group of insects that are fed Nepenthes nectar, then fall over, can't move properly, are slowed (not slowed by sticky nectar, I mean chemically depressed), or are somehow affected differently from a control group, then I'll say it may have something in it. You can't. Not at this time, at least.

Just because you read something does not make it true.

 

[Capensis]

Just because you read something does not make it true.

Well, just because you say so does not make it true, there are some unexplainable things on Earth, this is probably one of them. Besides, Nepenthes and Sarracenias are two different sepcies, their nectars might be different. Not trying to be mean or start an arguement, but, yeah...

 

[xvart]

As I recall, there has been research on nectar in recent history, most notably after The Savage Garden was published; the findings of which Clint discusses.

xvart.

 

[Capensis]

As I recall, there has been research on nectar in recent history, most notably after The Savage Garden was published; the findings of which Clint discusses.

xvart.

I think that was where I read it from, I can't remember . I'm going to do an experiment on that if I have the time with ants.

 

[Clint]

The fact that I said it doesn't make it true. I said there are no known substances found in Nepenthes at this time. Notice how I said "known" and "at this time". That is the truth. There are none that we know of at this time. If we discover there's some fabulous drug in a plant to be discovered tomorrow, what I said would STILL be true because, at the time of writing, there were no known substances. There is also no evidence to suggest there is anything unusual in the nectar of any known Nepenthes. I'm not saying it's impossible that there is some known or unknown species that produces a known or unknown "narcotic". I AM saying that if there is a species of Nepenthes (or any other CP except S. flava) then we don't KNOW that that species produces a debilitating substance(s), or what substance(s) it produces. You can't say a plant produces a "narcotic" to facilitate it's trapping mechanism just because you want it to be true. -You can say the sky or purple with polka-dots and pin-stripes going down the middle, but unless you're on mescaline it's going to be blue to everyone else.

I'm well aware that Sarracenia and Nepenthes are two separate genera. The only reason I brought up S. flava was because it is the only CP known to produce any "narcotics" at this time. PLEASE don't try to tell me it's "unexplainable". No substances equals no effects. What you're implying is like saying it's possible to randomly become drunk from eating untainted maple-flavored oatmeal.

 

[Capensis]

What you're implying is like saying it's possible to randomly become drunk from eating untainted maple-flavored oatmeal.

Now that would be an interesting moment.

 

[phissionkorps]

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=112579&page=2&highlight=coniine

Starting with my reply.

 

[Ant]

Well, maybe it is the insect drinking the nectar! It doesn't need to be the plants nectar. You know that after you eat alot most people want to sleep and become sluggishand slow, so what makes you think some bugs can't act the same way? Also ants seem to be an unlikely catch for my plants, they sit underneath the lid with their legs on the other side of he lid holding them up and avoid the lip.

 

[MrFus]

As far as I know the pitchers exhibits a great diversity of mechanism of trapping.

I Quote from a investigation made by Laurence Gaume and Yoel Forterre (Université de Provence, Technopole Château-Gombert, Marseille, France):

"In Nepenthes pitcher plants, prey capture and retention is mainly thought to be fulfilled by the slippery waxy layer which covers the upper inner part of the pitcher in most species, or by the peristome or nectar rim of the pitcher (in N. bicalcarata for instance).

However, some Nepenthes species lack such specialized surfaces or lose them later in development suggesting that the trapping mechanism of Nepenthes pitcher plants is more complex than commonly acknowledged. Moreover, reports of secretion of wetting agents or viscous substances in some species point to other potential roles of the digestive fluid."

On the conclutions of this investigation they found that the viscoelastic properties of the fluid inside of the pitchers is the main trapping device, and undermines the claim that the pitcher surfaces are the main component of the trapping mechanism in Nepenthes.

Quote "...the slippery waxy surface of the pitchers was shown to play a minor role in the trapping function of the plant, being even a variable character of weak adaptive significance. In contrast, the viscoelastic and retentive properties of the fluid are probably crucial for this tropical plant often submitted to high rainfall regimes and great variation in fluid concentration, since they persist at high dilutions by water, thereby allowing insect trapping during rainy seasons."

They have a small video posted of a fly that get on contact with the digestive fluid coming from a N.Rafflesiana and is unable to get free --> http://www.plosone.org:/article/fetchFirstRepresentation.action?uri=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pone.0001185.s003.

 

[Roarbark]

I'm sure you did read that. I'm also sure that Nepenthes do not produce any known compounds that have any narcotic/debilitating effect at this time. The only CP that is known to produce anything is S. flava, which produces a Coniine.

Show me a group of insects that are fed Nepenthes nectar, then fall over, can't move properly, are slowed (not slowed by sticky nectar, I mean chemically depressed), or are somehow affected differently from a control group, then I'll say it may have something in it. You can't. Not at this time, at least.

Just because you read something does not make it true.

In my personal experience, i have seen the alleged "slowing" effect of nectar on a N. Sanguinea. A couple ants were feeding on nectar on the plant, and i could poke and touch them with my finger, and they didnt react in the slightest. Try doing that with a normal ant.

(maybe they werent drugged out, but they were sure interested in the nectar)

 

[phissionkorps]

Of course ants will be interested in nectar. They're ants, and it's nectar.

I've been calling myth on this for months. The second someone produces a study published in a peer-reviewed journal, I'll retract my statements. However, in the better part of a year, that has yet to happen...

 

[philcula]

Aaaaaanyways- While staying on topic, I would be extremely cautious of ants visiting your Nepenthes plants. While they ARE a suitable food stuff for your plant they are also known to carry scale and other pests with them to set up house amongst your collection. So keep a keen eye out for this.