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jonnyq

Supporter
Good morning, all,

I could use a second opinion on one of my plants, if any would be willing to help...

So, I have two young N. ramispina, one growing at my job under artificial lighting (http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125589) which is thriving... The other is growing at home on my windowsill, under natural lighting.

The home N. ramispina has grown expectedly more slowly, with the lower amounts of winter light and cooler temperatures, but generally has been fine. It's been in the same windowsill since I got it back in October... It made a few small pitchers which opened and eventually dried out, it's now been a month or two since its last pitcher.

I had assumed that things would pick up for it as the days lengthened towards Spring, but I just noticed today that the leaves have started curling...

The plant
homeramispina01.jpg


Closeup of one leaf
homeramispina02.jpg


Closeup of another leaf
homeramispina03.jpg


I don't believe it's mite damage... I tried gently tapping on a leaf with a white piece of paper underneath as in this thread: http://www.terraforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=114913 , but I didn't see anything black or speck-like dislodge...

I don't think the humidity has noticeably shifted, nor have I changed the media... and if anything the temperature is warming slightly, but not suddenly...

Does anyone have any ideas or recommendations?

My first thought was to repot... Perhaps the media's breaking down? But then I worried that the stress of repotting could make things worse...

My second thought was that it hasn't had any insects or fertilization since probably December... So I thought about fertilizing, but again, I worry about exacerbating its troubles...
 
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That looks like either when I take cuttings and the leaves of the cutting curl over, or I get a plant through the mail and while it's acclimating it does that too... are you sure the plant has a good root system?
 
Does it get any full sunlight were it is now?
My Nepenthes ramispina did a lot better when i moved it from a windowsill to a darker place next to an aquarium (more humidity there) and a lot less fresh air.
Ive never fertilised it btw.
 
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The plant is showing signs of dessication/moisture stress. The moss looks moist though so I would carefully unpot the plant and see if there is a root problem
 
Thanks for the responses, all!

Alright, let's see...

@Taliesin - Yes, it's a S x SW facing window, with a skylight above it. It does get a few hours of direct sunlight each day; more and more, in fact, as the days lengthen. It may indeed by slightly closer to the window than before (~3-4" away as opposed to 5-6". We just got a new table to use by the sill, which sits everything slightly closer. A draft from the window, perhaps?)

@ thez, Mr. Paroubek - I've never actually unpotted it to examine its roots, as it had been doing fine up until now... I'll unpot it, take a pic and repost... While I'm at it, perhaps I'll put it in fresh media after all(?)... I have no idea how long it had been in the previous media before I purchased it...
 
Maybe you could put some other bushy plants around it to give it a bit of shade and protection from draft ?
Some of my smaller neps seem to do better when they are surrounded with other plants.
 
Thanks for the responses, all!

Alright, let's see...

@Taliesin - Yes, it's a S x SW facing window, with a skylight above it. It does get a few hours of direct sunlight each day; more and more, in fact, as the days lengthen. It may indeed by slightly closer to the window than before (~3-4" away as opposed to 5-6". We just got a new table to use by the sill, which sits everything slightly closer. A draft from the window, perhaps?)

@ thez, Mr. Paroubek - I've never actually unpotted it to examine its roots, as it had been doing fine up until now... I'll unpot it, take a pic and repost... While I'm at it, perhaps I'll put it in fresh media after all(?)... I have no idea how long it had been in the previous media before I purchased it...

Oh, and also N. ramispina is one of the pickiest plants I have. Even N. jacquelinae will be putting out pitchers while N. ramispina is still contemplating *maybe* putting out leaves, so I wouldn't be too bummed that it's misbehaving.
 
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i got a Nepenthes jacquelinae too and its way pickier with me then my N. ramispina :p
 
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@ Taliesin - Yeah, I'll see if I can switch position in the tray to give it a bit less direct sunshine... Cheers!

I unpotted it; I was surprised at how very much LFS was in the pot... Pretty tight...

Right, well, here's how it looked:
homeramispina04.jpg

homeramispina05.jpg


I didn't see anything untoward in the roots, but then I'm not very experienced in looking for problems in Nep roots... Does anyone notice anything than I'm missing?

I repotted it a bit more loosely in LFS:eek:rchid bark...
homeramispina06.jpg


Going to reposition it in the tray now...

---------- Post added at 01:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:38 PM ----------

Oh, and also Nepenthes ramispina is one of the pickiest plants I have. Even N. jacquelinae will be putting out pitchers while N. ramispina is still contemplating *maybe* putting out leaves, so I wouldn't be too bummed that it's misbehaving.

:D Misbehaving is fine; I'm just worried I'm killing it for some reason... :D I figured this is a good learning experience for me either way... Thx!
 
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  • #10
Thats not many roots at all imho.
Did you recently got it ?

Edit: just read that that was how it looked and not how it looks now :p
 
  • #11
Not to hijack the thread, but I have a similar question. The last few leaves my Nepenthes x ventrata has put out were similarly folded but then straightened out to normal leaves. I just assumed it was the low light/lower temps of the season. Should I be at all concerned? It's pitchering well and the leaves look great after they completely open!
 
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  • #12
My Nepenthes x ventrata does that when i forget to water it.
They go back to normal within a few hours after i water it.
 
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  • #13
Hmm well let's see if I can further the discussion. You have had the plant for about 5 months now? There appears to have been little root growth in that time which is troubling. Nor can I see any active root tips which is also troubling. The plant is without any doubt in my mind showing moisture stress so the question is why...
It is possible that a plant grown in a low light humid environment might react badly and show these symptoms on a hot dry day and then recover again during the evening, simply from the rapid change from it's normal conditions. I don't believe this is the case here.

It is possible that there was insufficient water for the plant to take up through the potting mix. Again doesn't appear to be the case.

It is possible the roots are dead while looking alive. Could be the case as the black roots are hard to tell sometimes if they are alive or dead. The lack of active root tips is an indication that the roots are dead OR the plant has not had the need to grow new roots as it has had plenty of moisture in the past 5 months and not needed any more root mass. (not sure I buy this but you never know). The larger whitish roots though look like they are alive so I am not convinced the roots are all dead.

It is possible the roots are healthy but there is something within the stem that has caused a disruption of water flow between the roots and the leaves. Particularly right were the old dead leaves were cut off. Perhaps a pathogen got into the stem there and cutting off the vascular tissue?

So the next step is to decide what to do.
Several possibilities!
First I would treat with some systemic fungicide just incase it is a pathogen. I would then bag the plant up to reduce transpiration. I would also make sure the potting mix is moist but not soaking wet. Nepenthes seem to root better when the potting mix is not overly wet and soggy.
IF the plant leaves unroll and looks like it's recovering I would probably leave it baggeed for a few weeks to see what happens. If it reacts badly to being removed from the bag later OR does not recover within a day or two after first being bagged I would probably go to option 2.

2. Take a cutting! Where the stem is still clearly green and healthy, cut off the bottom from the top. Next take a look at the cut end and verify there is no brown colored tissue. If there is then there is a big problem. If it is healthy, remove a couple of the lower green leaves and put the cutting into moist(not wet) sphagnum and treat like option one by bagging it up for a month or two.

Good luck and keep us posted!
 
  • #14
@ Taliesin - Actually, my grammar have been a bit ambiguous... What I meant was that I just unpotted it, i.e. all of the pictures in this thread were taken today. Sorry for the confusion...

Hmm well let's see if I can further the discussion. You have had the plant for about 5 months now? There appears to have been little root growth in that time which is troubling. Nor can I see any active root tips which is also troubling. The plant is without any doubt in my mind showing moisture stress so the question is why...
It is possible that a plant grown in a low light humid environment might react badly and show these symptoms on a hot dry day and then recover again during the evening, simply from the rapid change from it's normal conditions. I don't believe this is the case here.

It is possible that there was insufficient water for the plant to take up through the potting mix. Again doesn't appear to be the case.

It is possible the roots are dead while looking alive. Could be the case as the black roots are hard to tell sometimes if they are alive or dead. The lack of active root tips is an indication that the roots are dead OR the plant has not had the need to grow new roots as it has had plenty of moisture in the past 5 months and not needed any more root mass. (not sure I buy this but you never know). The larger whitish roots though look like they are alive so I am not convinced the roots are all dead.

It is possible the roots are healthy but there is something within the stem that has caused a disruption of water flow between the roots and the leaves. Particularly right were the old dead leaves were cut off. Perhaps a pathogen got into the stem there and cutting off the vascular tissue?

So the next step is to decide what to do.
Several possibilities!
First I would treat with some systemic fungicide just incase it is a pathogen. I would then bag the plant up to reduce transpiration. I would also make sure the potting mix is moist but not soaking wet. Nepenthes seem to root better when the potting mix is not overly wet and soggy.
IF the plant leaves unroll and looks like it's recovering I would probably leave it baggeed for a few weeks to see what happens. If it reacts badly to being removed from the bag later OR does not recover within a day or two after first being bagged I would probably go to option 2.

2. Take a cutting! Where the stem is still clearly green and healthy, cut off the bottom from the top. Next take a look at the cut end and verify there is no brown colored tissue. If there is then there is a big problem. If it is healthy, remove a couple of the lower green leaves and put the cutting into moist(not wet) sphagnum and treat like option one by bagging it up for a month or two.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Thank you! Very informative! Alright, on to step 1... will update in a few weeks...

Thanks, everyone!
 
  • #15
Sounds good! Not sure I made it very clear or explained why, but ...IF it does not appear to be improving noticeably in the leaf dessication within a few days. You may want to move on to option 2. The reason being if it is indeed being caused by either dead roots OR a pathogen that has moved into the lower portion of the stem. It may be too late in a few weeks to get a healthy tip cutting. Especially if it is a pathogen in the stem. On a positive note though. Small tip cuttings of N. ramispina usually root pretty quickly without much difficulty.

Hope that helps..

Tony
 
  • #16
I think Tony has described some very viable options. I would follow his recommendations.

My question:
What is the TDS of the water you are using? Most of the leaves appear to be stained with precipitated mineral residue.
 
  • #17
@ Mr. Paroubek - I think I've got it... So, I'm going to keep a vigilant eye on the leaves of the bagged Nepenthes ramispina. If the situation continues to deteriorate, and the leaves do not rehydrate, I'll take cut from the healthiest (top) portion of the N. ramispina and check for dead tissue in the center of the stem. If the stem looks green and healthy throughout, I'll attempt to root the cutting...

(If the stem is brown in the center, it means that a pathogen has already done its damage to the internal tissues of the plant stem, and water isn't being transported from the roots to the rest of the plant, and it's probably a goner...)

*whew* My fingers are crossed, thanks again for the advice! Will update shortly... :D

@ Mr. Clemens - Absolutely, I intend to follow the advice. :D This is why I love terraforums; I learn so much from everyone on here... :)

I've been using bottled distilled water and collected rainwater (both measured ~10PPM) on this N. ramispina since I got it in October. The thriving N. ramispina I have at work has only been watered using bottled distilled water. Both plants have that waxy coating, the only qualitative difference between their leaves (when my plant was healthier) was that the artificially lit N. rampispina at my job had redder leaves...

Based on this I had assumed that the waxy coating was a natural development of the leaves.
 
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  • #18
Yes indeed you got it ;>

Your water is fine. You are correct the waxy coating is a natural development. It is more obvious on the stressed plant because the coating is flaking off as the leaf tissue has shrunk while the waxy coating has not.
 
  • #19
I see, leaf cuticle becoming noticeable due to lose of turgor, not mineral deposits. Certainly not a good sign. Hoping to hear better news of this plant in the future.
 
  • #20
Kinda looks like you've got some root rot going on there. Good idea to repot with LFS and orchid bark. Some pumice (or perlite) and charcoal in that mix might not hurt either. Also, make sure your Neps aren't sitting in water. I've encountered problems in the past by letting that happen. You may want to add some supplemental artificial lighting to compensate for the lack of light in the winter. Too much water and not enough light is a bad combo for any Nep. I deal with less light coming through my window in the winter too. I've added some supplemental fluorescent light and watered less often and so far haven't had any problems.
 
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