Nepenthes naga ? Post and compare your plants here.

[Cthulhu138]

There seems to be some question lately as to whether or not these young seed grown Nepenthes naga are indeed Nepenthes naga. I figured I'd start this thread so we can all put our plants beside each other and post updates on the individual plants as they come. It seems like a very variable species in morphology as well as color in all the photos of adult plants that I've seen. It'll be interesting to see how these young plants develop.

Here's mine. Seed grown from Tony Paroubek. I'm 99% sure this one is a true N.naga

This is the pitcher it arrived bearing :

This is the 1st pitcher it's put out in my care:

Here are some of it's distinguishing characteristics:

Hairy leaf margins:

The developing anterior appendage on the underside of the lid:

No sign of the rear appendage or the ruffled lid yet................

 

[Api]

Grats on getting this plant. Hope it grows well for you.

 

[pokie22]

There are very simple molecular biology techniques for species identification, whether they be plants, animals, bacteria, or fungi. Since Naga was recently discovered, neither the matK or trnK sequence is available on NCBI. However, there are over 71 species of Nepenthes sequence deposited in the public database and one can always perform a process of elimination, or acquire a positive control from the grower. I would encourage you to befriend someone who has access to a lab and has some knowledge of molecular biology, and of course willing to run a few samples for you.

 

[Wire Man]

Mine is still a baby. I'll post pics tomorrow. I accidentally severed the newest inflating pitcher when transferring it to the larger terrarium.

 

[Cthulhu138]

Mine is still a baby.

Even better Graham. We have nothing to by with youngsters of this plant. Nobody seems to know what the juvies are supposed to look like.

 

[mato]

Here's mine from the same batch. Haven't had a new pitcher since it arrived, so it's a bit hard to say if it will darken or not.


N. naga



I'll try to take some more detailed pictures later.

 

[Cthulhu138]

Structurally yours looks a lot like mine. This species seems to vary quite a bit in color so not sure if that can be used as an indicator or not. I think I see the hint of that front lid appendage there too.

 

[mato]

Since my plant has been essentially frozen in time since it arrived, I wouldn't be surprised if the pitcher wasn't completely finished developing. It reminds me of yours before it colored up and there hasn't been a new pitcher to confirm what the standard morphology will be like. At the moment, there are a few things in the description that don't appear on mine: the leaves are not peltate at this size; the first hooked appendage under the lid, near peristome, isn't visible (although the second appendage near the apex is there); and the lid margin does not appear to be wavy.

We'll see how true all of this holds with successive pitchers, but at the moment it almost looks like it could be hybridized with N. rhombicaulis or gymnamphora.

 

[Whimgrinder]

@mato: the pigmentation of yours is almost the opposite end of the spectrum compared to mine. My seedlings is one of the blackest pitchers I have seen, and they have an almost metallic sheen to them. Not even the slightest hint of the operculum appendage, though. Perhaps in time. I think there is good reason to think hybridization may have had a role in these seedlings genesis. Case in point, Dean Cook's N. inermis seedlings: so far it appears every one of them is a hybrid with (likely) N. talangensis.

Moving on, here are some pics of the largest (3") pitcher of my (supposed) N. naga:

I received my seedling back in early September, 2012, so I have had it not quite five months. It has doubled in size (both diameter of the rosette and the pitcher size) in that time. I would qualify this as a very vigorous seedling.

 

[Cthulhu138]

Great pics Paul, beautiful plant. Do you have any pics of the plant itself ?

Here are the peltate leaves on mine. This becomes more prominent with each new leaf. This was barely noticable on the younger leaves and completely overlooked.

Here's a new pitcher it's working on. It should be about 1/4 to 1/3 bigger than the previous one.

 

[Cthulhu138]

Mat, I noticed that the ala on yours seems very reduced compared to the other 2 plants. I wonder if this is just natural variation or an indication of hybridization......

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

I would love to find out where they were obtained. My seeds didn't do anything.

 

[Cthulhu138]

I've tried growing N.naga from seed on 4 different occasions. All failed. I know it isn't my tecniques, I've got Nepenthes germination down solid. I think the first batches were viable fresh seeds and all the subsequent seeds are old, dead leftovers from the initial collection.

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

I definately need to pick your seed germination brain then.

 

[mato]

Mat, I noticed that the ala on yours seems very reduced compared to the other 2 plants. I wonder if this is just natural variation or an indication of hybridization......

That's one of the first things I noticed when I saw your pics, however, my plant isn't a great example because of its reluctance to grow or produce anything. I feel like there needs to be another pitcher to really compare it with.

Also, it's good to see that your plant is showing the peltate leaves as it increases in size. Perhaps this - and maybe the other features - will simply show up as the plants become larger.

 

[Cthulhu138]

Mat, maybe your plant had a rough time in shipping or just isn't settling in well yet. The stress may have just stopped it in it's tracks imparing any further development. Hopefully it will kick out a new pitcher soon.

That's what I'm thinking, these plants just seem to need to come of age, so to speak. The appendage and peltate leaves become more prominent with each pitcher, I'm hoping that the lid will start showing it's frilly characteristics soon.

 

[Wire Man]

You guys are going to hate me. The last pitcher on mine was less than an inch tall and it's already starting to develop the appendage! I'll get pics up soon. The alas also have some extremely long filaments.

 

[Whimgrinder]

Great pics Paul, beautiful plant. Do you have any pics of the plant itself ?

 

[Tony Paroubek]

Since my plant has been essentially frozen in time since it arrived, I wouldn't be surprised if the pitcher wasn't completely finished developing. It reminds me of yours before it colored up and there hasn't been a new pitcher to confirm what the standard morphology will be like. At the moment, there are a few things in the description that don't appear on mine: the leaves are not peltate at this size; the first hooked appendage under the lid, near peristome, isn't visible (although the second appendage near the apex is there); and the lid margin does not appear to be wavy.

We'll see how true all of this holds with successive pitchers, but at the moment it almost looks like it could be hybridized with N. rhombicaulis or gymnamphora.

I would not expect the ruffled lid, peltata leaves and the glandular crest at the back of the lid near the peristome to appear until the plants are making much larger lower pitchers. The hooked appendage under the lid at the front does seem to begin appearing while they are fairly young. I have seen it beginning to show on seedlings just a few inches wide. I have also noticed a fair amount of variation in coloring and prominence of the forked tongue among seedlings too. Perhaps this is just within the normal parameters for N. naga? Guess we will see..

Ady, who was one of the first to show this plant has some interesting notes and photos. N. naga info

edit: oh hmm yeah weird on the strange wings. I don't recall sending any that had wings that looked like that but maybe? I will have a look in the greenhouse. I wouldn't judge it on that respect until it grows a bit and makes new pitchers. Sometimes the wings get messed up on developing pitchers until they settle in and produce new pitchers.

edit again: It wouldn't surprise me if there are a fair number of plants that turn out to be natural hybrids of one sort or another with N. naga. Or that some seed has been collected that were not N. naga in the first place and simply some sort of N. bongso or something. At least it should be fairly easy to separate which are and aren't when they mature.

 

[Cthulhu138]

I was hoping you'd chime in Tony. I got mine from you and I was wondering, do have pics of any of the other seedlings for comparison ?