It is NOT a pregnant man!!!

[herenorthere]

Inspecting someone's privates or brain wiring is so 20th Century. The universally accepted test of gender is to spin people around three times, put them in a car in a strange place and see if they'll ask for directions.

 

[Clint]

Lmao. This reminds me of an episode of Southpark called Ms. Garrison's Fancy New Vagina:

Ms. Garrison: But I paid five thousand dollars to be a woman. This would mean I, I'm not really a woman. I, I'm just a... a I'm just a guy with a mutilated *****!
Doctor: Basically, yes.
Mrs. Garrison: ...Oh boy, do I feel like a jackass.

Lmao. Whoo. Alright. This person is a man because he identifies himself as a man. If I was a disembodied brain in a jar, I would still identify myself as a man. If I lost my genitals in some horrible accident, I'd still be a man mentally and genetically.

But, physically, he is technically (notice I didn't say "really") a woman because he has a uterus and all of the parts and has an XX chromosome pair. That does not MAKE him a woman, that just means he has a uterus. Being a man or woman is a mental thing. What REALLY matters is who someone says they are inside. He was apparently happy enough to not have a complete sex change, but he's still no more or no less than a man than someone who had an operation or anyone born with a *****. I forgot whoever said it, but this is all about ignoring REAL news and getting people to watch. If they said 'A pre-op tranny's pregnant!" no one would really care, because that's not interesting. Is this really the first time this has happened? I bet it's not, but I guess they didn't have anything real to talk about... like Darfur or something.

I never saw any hostility or anyone who's insecure with their sexuality It's so easy to say "You just don't agree with me because you secretly like boys" lmao. No one has said anything at all negative about transsexuals other than they don't think you can REALLY be a man/woman if you weren't born one (which raises questions about inter-sexed individuals... answer those for me ) and that's not good or bad. That's a neutral opinion. I just re-read the thread and saw where Josh called him "it".... this was a poor choice of words and pretty (very) insensitive, but he didn't mean anything by it IMO. Republicans don't generally think about political correctness; their thoughts just spew out without any sort of filter in between

For the record, even if you don't think someone who's bio. a woman but mentally a man (or visca versa), I'd really hope you'd put your opinions aside and call them what they wished to be called, for the sake of not being a jacka ss. I feel really sympathetic to transsexuals (well, in general. I don't actually know any..... that I know of ) I can't begin to imagine how much harder their life is compared to someone who's "just" gay/bi, much less a straight person. And I bet it's REALLY hard for a Native American Wiccan transsexual with a peg leg! I don't think you can be more of a minority than that!

EDIT: Why can we say Vagina but not P enis? Neither should be censored... human anatomy isn't vulgar (and people who mean to be vulgar don't say "p enis" anyway!)

 

[xvart]

For the record, even if you don't think someone who's bio. a woman but mentally a man (or visca versa), I'd really hope you'd put your opinions aside and call them what they wished to be called,

I totally agree. I was just trying to point out that the arcane, age old "definition" of sexual identification is just that: arcane and not worth spit on the ground.

xvart.

 

[Mokele]

Yes there are anatomical differences, such as the number of connectors from the left side to the right side of the brain and surely the use of different brain departments. However brains do not have gonads...

Where do you think those brain differences, and gonads, come from? Differences in gene expression and developmental pathways.

One doesn't hook up a baby to a brain monitor and analyze the usage of different brain areas to determine if the baby is male or female. This is absurd.

Think of it this way: If you call any limbless reptile a snake, 99% of the time you'll be correct. And that quick, approximate definition is good enough for most people's needs. But that's not *actually* what defines a snake, and if you want to *actually* know for sure, you need to be more in-depth.

The same thing here - 99% of the time (or more) the external matches the brain, so it's a useful first approximation, especially considering the cost for running a single fMRI scan. But every so other, you get the analog of a legless lizard - something that looks like one thing, but is something else.

Mokele

 

[Pyro]

Think of it this way: If you call any limbless reptile a snake, 99% of the time you'll be correct. And that quick, approximate definition is good enough for most people's needs. But that's not *actually* what defines a snake, and if you want to *actually* know for sure, you need to be more in-depth.

The same thing here - 99% of the time (or more) the external matches the brain, so it's a useful first approximation, especially considering the cost for running a single fMRI scan. But every so other, you get the analog of a legless lizard - something that looks like one thing, but is something else.

Mokele

Just because I feel like quibbling with someone over pointless minutia and because I know that Mokele can see and take my joke for exactly what it is, a joke :

I think the ratio of legless lizard species vs. snake species is such that the assumption that a legless reptile is a snake would only be correct 97.386% of the time...

And you are also assuming that all snakes are legless when it is a well known fact that on occasion boas and pythons will turn up that have legs. I guess that means they are not snakes??

 

[Mokele]

My herp-fu is stronger!

Limbless Armadillo-Lizards (Cordylids)

 

[Clint]

I had one of those for a long time. An armadillo lizard I mean.

Great pets. I've never seen one for sale except the one I had as a kid.

 

[Mokele]

They crop up from time to time on kingsnake.com classifieds, but never the legless species (which are almost unknown). They're often expensive, though, and almost never captive bred.

 

[herenorthere]

But you herp groupies . . . herpies . . . never mind . . . are overlooking the key question; what does that legless lizard or that legged snake want to be called?

 

[Pyro]

But you herp groupies . . . herpies . . . never mind . . . are overlooking the key question; what does that legless lizard or that legged snake want to be called?

Well I only know about the one I spoke to but he told me he wanted to be called "Bruce"...

 

[PlantAKiss]

 

[Finch]

Odd.

If this individual can bear a child then I do not consider him to be a true male in the biological sense. But if he thinks hes a male and wants to be thought of as a male, fine. For all intents and purposes what he wants to be called is what I will call him/her/whatever. The fact that they have changed-but-not-really changed their gender irrelevant to me. What this person is and wants to be “now” is the thing.

So sure, this is a ‘man’ bearing kids. Fine. Whatever. Is it a biological male bearing kids? No. But we knew that too.

Is it a miracle? No, its kind of weird and confusing. But I don’t really care how those people chose to live their lives, who am I to judge. Congratulations to him and the ?father(s)? on their child. Good for them.

 

[herenorthere]

If they're good parents, I don't care if one wants to be called a wombat and the other an umbrella.

 

[Est]

Think of the children, Bruce! I can hear the other kids already-

"Your mother wears wombat boots!"


So many possibilities...

 

[Captain Hamata]

What about this scenario? If a man is hypnotized to think he is a chicken, does that make him a chicken because he believes himself to be one?

 

[Clint]

You know... I just had an idea. If you really believe you're a man, and you call yourself a man, and you live as a man....

Why would you allow yourself to become pregnant in the first place, even if you're pre-op, much less have a baby? That's not living as a man, that's living as a woman. Men can't get pregnant, so if you think and say you're a "real" man, you shouldn't allow yourself to become pregnant. Ever. If you do, it really makes you look like a hypocrite. You can't be a real man only when it's convenient for you. You want a baby? Fine. Let someone else be the sperm donor for your partner's egg. Maybe he's gay? Then there's no egg to use if he's seriously a man. Adopt. Hell, adopt regardless.


No one is more liberal than I am on social issues, but one thing I don't like is hypocrisy. He's a hypocrite. I consider GLBT people like brothers and sisters, but he's a hypocritic brother. You can't have your cake and eat it to and expect too be taken seriously. If you could, I'd trade not having my hair fall out for periods any day of the week.... I mean five days of the month.

 

[herenorthere]

Judging from the shape of a lot of the men I saw at FL beaches last week, men having babies might not be that uncommon.

 

[Outsiders71]

You know... I just had an idea. If you really believe you're a man, and you call yourself a man, and you live as a man....

Why would you allow yourself to become pregnant in the first place, even if you're pre-op, much less have a baby? That's not living as a man, that's living as a woman. Men can't get pregnant, so if you think and say you're a "real" man, you shouldn't allow yourself to become pregnant. Ever. If you do, it really makes you look like a hypocrite. You can't be a real man only when it's convenient for you. You want a baby? Fine. Let someone else be the sperm donor for your partner's egg. Maybe he's gay? Then there's no egg to use if he's seriously a man. Adopt. Hell, adopt regardless.


No one is more liberal than I am on social issues, but one thing I don't like is hypocrisy. He's a hypocrite. I consider GLBT people like brothers and sisters, but he's a hypocritic brother. You can't have your cake and eat it to and expect too be taken seriously. If you could, I'd trade not having my hair fall out for periods any day of the week.... I mean five days of the month.

You raise a very good point Clint, one that I have been chewing on. What's to stop a person who's biologically female/male from switching their "mental gender identity" as they please to suit them? I'm male today, I feel like being a female tomorrow!

I also agree with Finch on the notion that I could careless what the person wants to be viewed as. If they want to spend the money on surgeries and hormone therapies and do everything in their power to switch teams, whatever. However I'm not going to encourage, support, or advocate "mental gender identity" when the person has the opposite biological genitalia still attached. As Clint said this female, turned male, reverted to female to have baby, male after birth stuff is nothing but hypocrisy and an example of the fallacy of gender identity based on self-thought. I mean after all we're not talking about dressing in drag here, we're talking about changing genders based on what we believe we are. How can you believe you're a man when you still have female genitals and are carrying a baby.

 

[seedjar]

That's like if I put a Escillade chasis on my Explorer and then tell everyone that I own a Cadillac.

or maybe not.

But they put a boxy body onto a Suburban chassis and called it a Hummer... And don't even get me started about the PT Cruiser.
~Joe

 

[Clint]

You raise a very good point Clint, one that I have been chewing on.

Aren't you glad I was the one who raised it, and not you? People would have called you a bigot

I'm playing with you, and you know that You're not, and I know that