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Hypothetical question regarding wild plants and trespassing

  • #61
In the words of Carl Grimes - "Everything is food for something else." :awesome:
 
  • #62
Interesting analysis of force, John, but without more I don't buy the analogy. Not all of what we call 'force' is qualitatively homogenous, nor is all we call 'property'. And even from a 'natural' rights perspective, property rights are arguably much more derived and socially constructed than are rights to bodily integrity.

Please understand that my analysis of force was at the most fundamental level, and did not include the influence that living in a society has upon the process. Looking at my example of defensive force, dropping your assailant with a single blow and walking away is saintly behavior compared to what I personally think should be done to the perp. No person whose opinion matters can argue against that response to an attack. Imo he deserves a lot worse. But because I live in a society I accept that kicking him until he coughs his lungs out is unacceptable and should be punished.
 
  • #63
I quite enjoy stimulating conversation which is why I keep coming back to this :)

I was not exactly familiar with the nature of a weasel. I'm not exactly claiming that taking more then absolutely needed is wrong because I myself have a lot more then I could ever "need" I'm typing to you on a phone I don't need if you want to get technical need is based solely on survival I think right? Well then I don't need my phone. That being said the weasel doesn't need to kill that many chickens. You've definitely got me thinking now which I like in fact, and to add to it lets just say this is an endangered species of weasel and these chickens are "owened" by someone who doesn't "need" them and it's in the weasels nature.. so I guess I would have to say slightly contrary to my first statement maybe I still would do something because the weasel is being wasteful and the chickens have no natura defense against them maybe it would be in the chickens and the humans best intrests to stop the weasel. As for the weasels rights , if it was possible to relocate this and other weasels of the Same species to somewhere they didn't have access to chickens to kill for fun. I think it's our duty at least someone to maintain balance and order on this planet being that we are at the top of the food chain, it would make sense to protect everything under us. To what extent that protections goes I'm sure some would argue to shoot the darn weasel and I probably wouldn't argue with the person with a gun either..

Thanks for making me think it's actually been a great discussion now that it's turned more conversational and not as much just arguing. I love to discus bur no point things getting heated :)
 
  • #64
I quite enjoy stimulating conversation which is why I keep coming back to this :)

I was not exactly familiar with the nature of a weasel. I'm not exactly claiming that taking more then absolutely needed is wrong because I myself have a lot more then I could ever "need" I'm typing to you on a phone I don't need if you want to get technical need is based solely on survival I think right? Well then I don't need my phone. That being said the weasel doesn't need to kill that many chickens. You've definitely got me thinking now which I like in fact, and to add to it lets just say this is an endangered species of weasel and these chickens are "owened" by someone who doesn't "need" them and it's in the weasels nature.. so I guess I would have to say slightly contrary to my first statement maybe I still would do something because the weasel is being wasteful and the chickens have no natura defense against them maybe it would be in the chickens and the humans best intrests to stop the weasel. As for the weasels rights , if it was possible to relocate this and other weasels of the Same species to somewhere they didn't have access to chickens to kill for fun. I think it's our duty at least someone to maintain balance and order on this planet being that we are at the top of the food chain, it would make sense to protect everything under us. To what extent that protections goes I'm sure some would argue to shoot the darn weasel and I probably wouldn't argue with the person with a gun either..

Thanks for making me think it's actually been a great discussion now that it's turned more conversational and not as much just arguing. I love to discus bur no point things getting heated :)

I'm glad you're finding this enjoyable. Try thinking about it this way. The chickens are your property and you have the right to defend them. Trying to reconcile what you are beginning to think is acceptable with the concept of animals having individual rights is a contradiction an aircraft carrier could sail through. Given that the most basic right is the right to one's own life, it seems silly to claim a creature has rights while it's being bought and sold. The "rights" granted by law to animals are actually just restrictions upon what people can do with their property.
 
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  • #65
I personally wouldn't harm the weasel. Like I said I would just relocate it if possible.. I try not to harm anything and do believe it is our duty to maintain order in some fashion , exactly how this is done is generally up to each individual. Some may chose to shoot the weasel, I wouldn't.
 
  • #66
I personally wouldn't harm the weasel. Like I said I would just relocate it if possible.. I try not to harm anything and do believe it is our duty to maintain order in some fashion , exactly how this is done is generally up to each individual. Some may chose to shoot the weasel, I wouldn't.
While I admire what you would personally do, the more pertinent question is what you think others should do......
 
  • #67
I think most people would probably shoot that little ****..

Myself even if it wasn't endangered I would try not to kill it. I find myself putting spiders outside that stray off my plants the ones that stay on my plants I leave alone, I TRY my hardest to be a respectful person. I also understand that not everyone shares my views and I don't judge those who would get so angry by those weasels they just open fire on it.. to each is own I guess
 
  • #68
I think most people would probably shoot that little ****..

Myself even if it wasn't endangered I would try not to kill it. I find myself putting spiders outside that stray off my plants the ones that stay on my plants I leave alone, I TRY my hardest to be a respectful person. I also understand that not everyone shares my views and I don't judge those who would get so angry by those weasels they just open fire on it.. to each is own I guess

Ok, but just to be clear are you saying the weasel has no rights, or that the rights of the person justifiably killing it outweigh those of the weasel?
 
  • #69
Neither.. more just I'm not arguing with anyone with a gun no matter how I feel about their opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I try my hardest to respect that as well and usually just do my own thing and stay out of people's business. It's not my right to say what people are and arnt allowed to do with themselves and things that have nothing to do with me. I'm not going to force my opinions apon others , not that I don't think the weasel has rights, or that I think humans have the right to kill for vengeance. Living in Canada no death penalties here :) agreed that it's natural cause and effect force or what ever its called but the law is different everywhere and everyone's opinion is different :)
 
  • #70
Neither.. more just I'm not arguing with anyone with a gun no matter how I feel about their opinion. Everyone is entitled to their opinion and I try my hardest to respect that as well and usually just do my own thing and stay out of people's business. It's not my right to say what people are and arnt allowed to do with themselves and things that have nothing to do with me. I'm not going to force my opinions apon others , not that I don't think the weasel has rights, or that I think humans have the right to kill for vengeance. Living in Canada no death penalties here :) agreed that it's natural cause and effect force or what ever its called but the law is different everywhere and everyone's opinion is different :)
Yeah ok.
 
  • #73
In my opinion if something is alive it is then also conscious. It just seems like common sense to me.
 
  • #74
Has a weasel killed your chickens?

As I previously said my first job was on a chicken farm, and I had the experience of cleaning out a hen house after a weasel paid a visit the previous night.
 
  • #75
As I previously said my first job was on a chicken farm, and I had the experience of cleaning out a hen house after a weasel paid a visit the previous night.
Ever heard of snakeheads? They do the same thing as weasels in the water, and this is a fish that can walk on land, terrible little ****s
 
  • #76
Oh sorry I missed that havnt been paying all that much attention, I'm sorry to hear that, I wouldn't have enjoyed that experience and i can understand your distaste for weasels..
 
  • #77
Oh sorry I missed that havnt been paying all that much attention, I'm sorry to hear that, I wouldn't have enjoyed that experience and i can understand your distaste for weasels..

I don't have any distaste for weasels at all. I think they amazing little animals and greatly respect their hunting abilities. And I'd rather clean out after a weasel gets in than clean out a neglected house.
 
  • #79
Ever heard of snakeheads? They do the same thing as weasels in the water, and this is a fish that can walk on land, terrible little ****s

You watch too many movies! Have you ever actually seen one in person? I've been keeping fish for over 40 years and worked in the trade in one capacity or other for over 30. I kept a Giant Snakehead, Channa micropeltes back when they were legal. They're eating machines no doubt, and can swallow a very large fish compared to their own size. But put one in a tank with a really aggressive fish that's too big to swallow and the snakehead comes in second every time. One of my hobbies now is collecting my own fish. I live about 45 minutes away (without traffic, but there's always traffic!) from FDR Park in south Philadelphia. Google "FDR Park snakehead" and see what happens. If you're ever in the Philadelphia area, want to see a snakehead up close and don't mind getting wet and muddy pm me a couple days before you hit town.
 
  • #80
You watch too many movies! Have you ever actually seen one in person? I've been keeping fish for over 40 years and worked in the trade in one capacity or other for over 30. I kept a Giant Snakehead, Channa micropeltes back when they were legal. They're eating machines no doubt, and can swallow a very large fish compared to their own size. But put one in a tank with a really aggressive fish that's too big to swallow and the snakehead comes in second every time. One of my hobbies now is collecting my own fish. I live about 45 minutes away (without traffic, but there's always traffic!) from FDR Park in south Philadelphia. Google "FDR Park snakehead" and see what happens. If you're ever in the Philadelphia area, want to see a snakehead up close and don't mind getting wet and muddy pm me a couple days before you hit town.

I've caught quite a few fishing actually, they're just so much easier to catch because they strike at anything going by them. I've never kept them and I haven't exactly been seeing them interact with larger and more aggressive fish, but that definitely sounds interesting, I've always wanted to get some big aquariums and put a bunch of aggressive (hopefully more towards other species than each other).
As long as you don't mind visiting some purp bogs as well then sure :)
 
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