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Heliamphora minor aonda giant

Maiden

Maiden

Hello again

I was pretty sure that plant was a myth... Until a friend in france show me his growlist. He show me some pictures of the plant, and its like a normal minor but the pitchers end like a trompet, very wide, almost ridiculous, and red under good light like other helis. So, of course, i bought one from him and the plant are on the way to my home.

Someone else grow that specie(cultivar?) ?
 
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Intriguing! I am yet to try Heliamphora, but their variety is crazy. This is just another testament to that.
 
I agree :)

For me, heliamphora is one of the mosts beautiful and mysterious cps .
 
How large are these leaves, since H. minor can produce pitchers of 15 centimeters (6") or more?
 
I too am skeptical. Especially if that clone has been in cultivation for a while. Many of the older clones of minor, heterodoxa, and nutans I personally suspect to be introgressed hybrids. Also consider that heliamphora taxonomy was murky at best.
 
amphirion said:
Many of the older clones of minor, heterodoxa, and nutans I personally suspect to be introgressed hybrids. Also consider that heliamphora taxonomy was murky at best.
Click to expand...

You mean, if i grow a minor clone for many years, the morphologic caracteristics will be faded or will change ?

And what is murky ? I cannot find it in the translator. You mean a big range of shapes variation?

Anyway, its a nice little plant :)
 
Oh no, the morphological characteristics will remain the same. However regard the past history of heliamphora. The past 10 years have seen the rise of many new species and formal descriptions of past plants. Former heterodoxa have been given new names such as glabra, sarracenioides, purpurescens, collina etc. up until then, most plants in cultivation consisted of h. minor, h. nutans, and h. heterodoxa, which leads me to the word murky: meaning clouded, enigmatic, undefined. Asexual propagation took forever because tc protocol either wasn't established or poor, seed was the easiest way to propagate heliamphora. The unique nature of the flowers makes it impossible to pollinate the same flower with the same pollen and crossing (making hybrids) came naturally. These hybrids would be crossed with others or introgressed yielded unique characteristics such as smaller size. By default, since all heliamphora look the same ;) and taxonomic guides were inconsistent, people tried to label their plants as best as possible. This most likely gave birth to the giant minor your friend has. Nutans giant was recently revealed to be glabra x nutans, and I suspect minor 'vigorous' is an introgressed hybrid of nutans, heterodoxa, and minor, having minor's size, heterodoxa's robustness, and nutans' nectar spoons. The older clones would be in reference to plants that are or are decendents of plants some 40 odd years ago, where as the newest clones would have came from wistuba, or a fresh new source with no relation to the original cultivated plants some 40 odd years ago. Again I am drawing conclusions based on my personal observations. Feel free to disprove.
 
To be honest, it will be very hard to disprove. I think your analyse is amazing.
So, it will be almost impossible to know what plant i really have.
I will put a h.minor unknow clone on the label for now.

Thanks for the reply :)
 
  • #10
BigBella said:
How large are these leaves, since H. minor can produce pitchers of 15 centimeters (6") or more?
Click to expand...

I dont know because i have a young plant, but i think the same as normal minor. But like amphirion said, its probably a mix of differents things, so time will tell!
By the way, the 'normal' minor from auyan can have pitchers taller than that. I have a minor with a 17cm pitcher right now. But maybe its just a 'super pitcher' of a very mature plant.
 
  • #11
Hello Maiden,

there is some discussion of this clone on the german forum, though it may not be especially illuminating since it's mostly about how a clone labeled "Giant clone" didn't really turn out to be particularly giant. One of the ambiguities is whether the "giant clone" Severitt got is the same clone as the "Aonda giant clone." I'm most interested in whether anyone can confirm that this material originated near the Sima Aonda, rather than whether it is truly gigantic. In any case the most helpful part of the german thread is that Gert Hoogenstrijd from Araflora used to sell the "Aonda giant clone." I wrote him to see if he has any helpful information about its origins. If I get a reply I'll let you know. Here is the link:
http://forum.carnivoren.org/index.php?/topic/24972-h-minor-aonda-giant-clone/
 
  • #12
The last picture, with the blue background, is from Gert's old website Extreme-Plants.
 
  • #13
"By the way, the 'normal' minor from auyan can have pitchers taller than that. I have a minor with a 17cm pitcher right now. But maybe its just a 'super pitcher' of a very mature plant."

I'd really like to see a picture Maiden. This is the tallest minor I have ever seen or grown. It is at most 11 cm tall: http://www.flickr.com/photos/51764444@N03/9646099661/

<a href="http://www.flickr.com/photos/51764444@N03/9646099661/" title="H minors by elranchopinguicula, on Flickr"><img src="http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2856/9646099661_b9b03801c0.jpg" width="500" height="375" alt="H minors"></a>
 
  • #14
Mobile: all 3 pictures where taken on google. I put them private on flickr, and in a near future i will delete them. That was just to show the plant here :)

Mikewilder:

The plant i talked about. All my minor are like this one, i have 4 mother plants. But this one is the taller. By the way, this one is 17cm without the spoon.

8700667806_bb7d4accb1_b.jpg


Thanks a lot for the good link/info. I really apreciate ! I speak to someone of araflora, and he cannot tell me more about the minor giant. He just have it since many years. Maybe you will have more chance.

I think this plant is called giant because of the wide pitchers.
 
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  • #15
Maiden said:
Mobile: all 3 pictures where taken on google. I put them private on flickr, and in a near future i will delete them. That was just to show the plant here :)
Click to expand...
I only said that because mikewilder had mentioned Gert in the previous post, so it was just confirmation that he used to sell this plant.
 
  • #16
Hello Maiden,

thanks for the picture. Gert says that Joachim Nerz was the original collector, and that he did in fact get the material at the Sima Aonda. There are no other species growing on Auyan Tepui, so it cannot be a natural hybrid. Though it is logically possible that subsequent hybridization took place in cultivation, there is no evidence to support that idea. So I see no reason to be skeptical about the location data or the species ID.
 
  • #17
I see. We are in a grey zone, hard to tell how this plant became like this. But for sure, its a pretty cute little plant, but im a little bit disapointed because i was sure that plant was a true rare specie from that aonda cave.

Mobile: ok :)
 
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  • #18
Ho mike, i tryed to read the thread on your german forum, but im on mobile and i cannot translate. Can you write a fast resume of that thread? Its almost the same as we wrote here ?

edit: Its ok, i used a translator. Nice thread and forum.
 
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  • #19
Hello Maiden,

"but im a little bit disapointed because i was sure that plant was a true rare specie from that aonda cave."

I think there must be some misunderstanding between us. I was trying to give you good news. Based on what Gert said, the reasonable conclusion is that it is H minor, and it is from the cave. So you should be happy, right? There is no evidence to doubt the species or the locality. There is no gray zone. It is minor, it is from Sima Aonda.

The german thread basically consists of Severitt saying that a giant clone he got didn't turn out to be any bigger than a different minor clone he had. The problem for us is that it is unclear whether the not-giant "giant" he had was the same clone as the "Aonda giant." So really the most useful part of the thread is tying the "aonda giant" to Gert. Gert got it from Nerz, Nerz got it from Aonda, it is a minor. Donc, restez heureux.
 
  • #20
ok merci :)

Its probably because of my crap English, sorry for that. Yep your last thread make me happier :)

One more thing mike, if the plant came from that aonda cave, i have to grow this minor with less light ?
 
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