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Drosera adelae and Polyploidy.[Giant pictures]

C

Cruzzfish

Today I began an experiment with D. adelae and what they do when they're polyploid. For those that don't know, polyploidy is when an organism has more than the usual number of chromosome sets, such as twice as many, four times, etc. For this experiment, adelae root cuttings were exposed to .1% oryzalin for 24 hours and we're gonna see how they grow differently than normal ones.
Brick of red/green sphagnum moss. Not looking to happy right now.
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Fluffed up now. Right is control tray.
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The D. adelae roots that are being used.
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Drosera adelae cuttings in their petri trays. The others are fast plants, as we're experimenting with them too. I had to count all those seeds by hand, no tweezers. Not fun because static would make them roll away,
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Everything soaking. Tomorrow we rinse them and get them in the proper substrate. Orange is experimental.
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Bad ***! Keep us posted. Perhaps you could get into CPN if anything interesting happens!!
 
Sounds like a cool experiment. I'll be looking forward to your results. :)
 
More on it tomorrow when I we get them planted in the moss.
 
Looking forward to the results.
 
Have you ever done an experiment like this before? Any idea what to expect?
 
Generally polyploids will have thicker leaves and bigger flowers. It's not always a good thing, mind you, but sometimes a polyploid will benefit by essentially being able to "harness the power" of that second set of chromosomes. Polyploidy can render them twice as effective at doing many biological functions.
 
I've done this experiment before with the Capsicum chinense chile peppers, and got some very odd shaped leaves. The polyploids aren't simply twice as massive, and in this case at least they were disproportionate and/or deformed.

I'm hoping the Drosera adelae get larger, and I'm also going to be measuring how their stickyness varies. Also, if they get larger than the normal ones that would explain a thing or two about that giant adelae that appeared recently.

The main thing I'm studying is reproduction though, which is divided into two parts. The first is if polyploidy effects their willingness to create plantlets, so I'll be measuring crown count between the control and experimental. The second is if polyploidy interferes with their self incompatibility(this is documented in the past for other plants), so I'll be pollinating the polyploids to see if they produce seeds with each other and with the diploids, which shouldn't be happening for adelae.


Below are two leaves from two different plants I had last year.

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Polyploidy is so freaking neat and random in its effects that it would take a small workshop to show what it's capable of doing... but among them, our native Goldenrod at some point naturalized in China. It subsequently became polyploid and now grows twice its natural rate and size, 6-10' tall, and is a hugely troublesome invasive over there.
 
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  • #10
I was going to experiment on A. titanum, but there are space issues with that. And time constraints. Maybe later, when I have more room and can get leaf cuttings or seeds.
 
  • #11
Cruzzfish said:
I'm hoping the Drosera adelae get larger, and I'm also going to be measuring how their stickyness varies. Also, if they get larger than the normal ones that would explain a thing or two about that giant adelae that appeared recently.
Click to expand...

I'm unsure about the giant plant(s) you refer to but D. adelae in its standard form can get surprisingly large. It seems to be largely a function of how much light it gets. The plants I am most used to seeing get normal 'sundew amounts' of light and grow smaller, very narrow leaves. Given lower light levels the leaves get wider and just bigger overall as does the entire plant. I think this species tolerates the higher light conditions but prefers the lower ones.

Just the same your results should be fun to see.
 
  • #12
bluemax said:
I'm unsure about the giant plant(s) you refer to but D. adelae in its standard form can get surprisingly large. It seems to be largely a function of how much light it gets. The plants I am most used to seeing get normal 'sundew amounts' of light and grow smaller, very narrow leaves. Given lower light levels the leaves get wider and just bigger overall as does the entire plant. I think this species tolerates the higher light conditions but prefers the lower ones.

Just the same your results should be fun to see.
Click to expand...

They do get larger in the dimmer light, but there's one clone going around that gets huge in strong light and apparently resembles a young king sundew in terms of size.
 
  • #15
I'm curious how much of a factor humidity is in determining leaf size as well. Mine certainly won't get all that large, but it is growing in 50% humidity.

That link won't load for me, but I've seen a picture of a plant with solid red leaves at least 6 inches long in strong light before.
 
  • #16
I, too, wonder how much difference humidity makes to this species. I kinda guess that D. adelae likes it more than most but I haven't tested that hypothesis.

I would've liked to just post the photo but that didn't seem fair to the person who owns it.
 
  • #17
I have used the chemical Colchicine to induce polyploidy, as in my famous article:
CPN Samples

I did not find that polyploidy increased size of sundews. Rather, I used this trick to make sterile hybrids fertile. However, I never treated D. adelae.

When you get really good at it you can tell which plant is polyploid or not by comparing cell size. I am able to do this by simply examining cells on the leaf surface using a 20x hand lens. Have fun.
Ivan, AKA the Evil Dr. FrankenSnyder
 
  • #18
FrankenSnyder said:
I have used the chemical Colchicine to induce polyploidy, as in my famous article:
CPN Samples

I did not find that polyploidy increased size of sundews. Rather, I used this trick to make sterile hybrids fertile. However, I never treated D. adelae.

When you get really good at it you can tell which plant is polyploid or not by comparing cell size. I am able to do this by simply examining cells on the leaf surface using a 20x hand lens. Have fun.
Ivan, AKA the Evil Dr. FrankenSnyder
Click to expand...

I'd have loved to use colchicine because there's much more literature about how to use it, but it's not allowed in my work environment.

I wonder why polyploid sundews don't seem to have much difference in size, because most other things do.
 
  • #19
Cruzzfish said:
I'd have loved to use colchicine because there's much more literature about how to use it, but it's not allowed in my work environment.

I wonder why polyploid sundews don't seem to have much difference in size, because most other things do.
Click to expand...

Or maybe it's a myth?
 
  • #20
UPDATE: First leaf unfurling since exposure. We'll see how it looks compared to control group plantlets of similar size.
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In the meantime, here are some Brassica rapa fast plant flowers.

Control. These plants are seven times taller and have many more flowers. They are less sturdy though.
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Exposed. These aren't in full bloom yet, but they have odd shaped flowers. Much smaller too, but not slower growing.
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FrankenSnyder said:
Or maybe it's a myth?
Click to expand...
The polyploid size difference? Definitely not, as the above photos indicate. Polyploids aren't always larger though.
 
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