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VERY ILLEGAL!!!!!!!!

Joined
Jun 6, 2008
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3,014
Location
SF, CA
Look at the listing -- it says 'the heart of Sonoma County' as the location. That would be where Peter's nursery is. I have been to Peter's nursery a few times and the pots that the drought plants are planted are look much like the ones he uses.

So ... I see three possibilities
1) Peter is selling some plants via ebay
2) Someone who buys from Peter is selling plants
C) Someone who steals from Peter is selling plants.

I would not accuse Peter D'Amato of doing anything in violation of CITES or any other conservation organization. I have never known him to be anything but above-board over the years and a passionate stickler for detail -- when it comes to conservation issues.

As far as plastic pots looking familiar, those that Caifornia Carnivores stocks are among the most common and popular types used by commercial nurseries; and I and many others purchase those by the dozens from wholesalers or online. In fact, the local garden centers in SF also stock them by the hundreds.

The location given is also meaningless. Sonoma County stretches North as far as Cloverdale and South to the Petaluma area -- hundreds of square miles. "The Heart of Sonoma" is simply an expression; there are those on eBay who simply list their locations as "North America" . . .
 
Joined
Dec 2, 2002
Messages
1,231
Location
Arcata, California
and the tap water there in Cali is probably hard as hell, i know Bella said his tapwater was 300-400 ppm in NoCal, cant imagine its much better anywhere else.
California is a very large place with an area of 163,696 sq mi, 250 miles long and 770 miles long. Local water quality varies greatly. Here are some water quality numbers for California.
Snowfall and Rainfall: 5 to 15 ppm
Snowmelt and Rainfall Runoff in Watersheds: 50 to 100 ppm
Sacramento River at the City of Sacramento: 120 ppm
Groundwater Pumped from Granitic Alluvium: 200 to 400 ppm
Groundwater Pumped from Sedimentary Alluvium 600 to 10,000 ppm
Colorado River at Imperial Dam: 750 ppm
Ocean Water: 35,000 ppm
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
230
Location
Upstate NY
I believe the "drought sale" plants are being sold by Lois (aka flytraplady5). She runs a wholesale CP nursery not far from and supplies many plants to Peter.

The pots look familiar because the both buy them in bulk from http://www.mcconkeyco.com/page.aspx?nid=25

You are probably right ... in one of the ads the seller mentions that she runs a wholesale nursery


Oh -- and thanks for the link to the the pot supplier -- I have been looking for those
 

xvart

Doing it wrong until I do it right.
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Just because nobody has posted that they reported it doesn't mean they didn't report it.

xvart.
 

Not a Number

Hello, I must be going...
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The Czech Republic and Thailand (the other seller) are both parties to the CITES treaty. As long as they have the permits and other paperwork to legally export CITES species then no problem. The recipient may or may not need permits to import CITES species - depends on the nation.

If they are shipped to a nation/country that is not a party of the CITES treaty then no permits/paperwork is needed except whatever is necessary to export/import seeds or plants in the first place.
 
Joined
Mar 29, 2006
Messages
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Location
Upstate NY
Selling oreophiila seeds across international borders without the proper paperwork is illegal; there is no doubt about that. If we put aside the strict legal question here for a moment, I would like to ask a ethical question.

Since the person selling the seeds is in the Czech Republic, the likelihood of the seeds being poached is almost nil. That means what is likely is that this person, collected the seeds from his or her own plants. Since we can safely assume that the seeds are not poached, is it ethical to sell them? Is it ethical to buy them?

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this

And for the record --- no I am not going to bid on them :)
 
Joined
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Western, NC
Selling oreophiila seeds across international borders without the proper paperwork is illegal; there is no doubt about that. If we put aside the strict legal question here for a moment, I would like to ask a ethical question.

Since the person selling the seeds is in the Czech Republic, the likelihood of the seeds being poached is almost nil. That means what is likely is that this person, collected the seeds from his or her own plants. Since we can safely assume that the seeds are not poached, is it ethical to sell them? Is it ethical to buy them?

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this

And for the record --- no I am not going to bid on them :)

It is ethical. It has no effect on wild populations.
 

Not a Number

Hello, I must be going...
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I asked the Czech Republic seller if he had the CITES paperwork in order for me to import the seeds into the US.

He (or she) responded that they do not ship these to the US, only within the EU. If permits are needed from his/her end it's an additional 30 euros. No specific mention of CITES.

It is possible that these are being sold legally within CITES for the EU, which could be why the listed has not been pulled even after being reported.
 

theyellowdart

sea bear returns!
Joined
Apr 5, 2008
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Location
Gibsonville, North Carolina
Selling oreophiila seeds across international borders without the proper paperwork is illegal; there is no doubt about that. If we put aside the strict legal question here for a moment, I would like to ask a ethical question.

Since the person selling the seeds is in the Czech Republic, the likelihood of the seeds being poached is almost nil. That means what is likely is that this person, collected the seeds from his or her own plants. Since we can safely assume that the seeds are not poached, is it ethical to sell them? Is it ethical to buy them?

Just wondering what people's thoughts are on this

And for the record --- no I am not going to bid on them :)

That's a completely irrelevant question. How could it possibly be unethical?

Yes, it may be against the law, but that doesn't make it unethical. It just makes it against the law.
 

Finch

Whats it to ya?
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I wonder how many of the supposed oreophiila stock are actually at least partially hybrids... no easy way of telling with seeds though.
 
Joined
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Location
Upstate NY
That's a completely irrelevant question. How could it possibly be unethical?

Yes, it may be against the law, but that doesn't make it unethical. It just makes it against the law.


I actually agree with you. I see no ethical problem selling CITES protected seeds or plants that someone has grown themselves.

However, there seemed to me that there was a certain outrage over the Ebay listing selling oreophilla seeds from the Czech Republic. I was curious if this outrage was ethical in nature or simply that people should not break the law.
 
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
1,561
Location
Indiana, USA
I am not up to speed on cites so forgive me. Is selling or even giving seed from cultivated endangered sarracenia illegal?

I guess I thought it was just the plants. Seeds were OK if they were from a cultivated source. I have never looked at getting an oreophila.
 
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