The theory of how, once enough fresh water from the glaciers and frozen ocean melt into the ocean current, the current shuts down and stops bringing warmed water (and therefore warmed air) to the poles, and therefore creating an ice age, hence global cooling.
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True - 'global cooling = global cooling'
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[b said:
all though a bit radically and 'out there'.
Something else some of you might be interested in looking up, the sun has weather cycles just like earth, it has highs and lows, and it's temperature rises and dips over long periods of time. This can effect our climate as well.
i love how "scientists" latch on to 5-10 year weather patterns and read something into it other than the natural ebb and flow of the planet. just cause we like to base things on 1 5 or 10 years doesnt mean the planet does. observing weather patterns for a 10 year period only gets you data for that 10 years. doesnt show you much in the larger scheme of things. acurate weather data for most areas is only about 100 years old. "modern" humans have been around for what? 35 times that atleast? kinda hard to read anything into current data when we dont really have that much historical data.
I recently read an article, which I can't find now, which talked about using a barrium atom (which i think is created by periods of high solar activity) to gauge how the suns magnetic fields shift, the whens and whatsits of it all... well, apparently, they think the sun shifts its magnetic fields every 100,000 years... and according to their data, we are currently in the time frame where the sun increases it's temperature for the next 500,000 years. now, that is a climate!
scientists are now starting to formulate theories on whether this activity, in conjunction w/ small variables in the earths orbit (.1% change closer to the sun) can account for ice ages and long periods of draught.
I don't think anyone in their right mind can say we shouldn't be reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but I certainly don't think they are as big a part of the problem as many people think they are, I honestly believe the earth is going through a normal warming cycle, but I do believe, we are most likely aggrevating the situation. All one needs to do is look at thermal maps of the country and see the heat blooms around big cities, those heat blooms can effect wind, wind effects rain, lack of rain causes erosion (lack of plants roots to control it) and so on and so forth...
what a fun time we live in.
I don't think anyone in their right mind can say we shouldn't be reducing greenhouse gas emissions, but I certainly don't think they are as big a part of the problem as many people think they are, I honestly believe the earth is going through a normal warming cycle, but I do believe, we are most likely aggrevating the situation. All one needs to do is look at thermal maps of the country and see the heat blooms around big cities, those heat blooms can effect wind, wind effects rain, lack of rain causes erosion (lack of plants roots to control it) and so on and so forth...
what a fun time we live in.
it's NOT 5 to 10 years. The exact measurements start at 100 years (even that is 10-20 times longer than what you said) but the average global temperature, greenhouse gases, etc. have been measured for the last couple thousands of years by analyzing ice from many glaciers around the world and forzen lakes, trees, etc. and they have determined that at around the industrial revolution (what a coincidence... it's all doing perfectly fine until the industrial revolution) the greenhouse gases concentration in the atmosphere skyrocketed (that's relative of course...) and so did the temperature.[b said:
Yes, the temperature increase doesn't sound like much, but the little ice age in europe, --1450 to 1850-- which saw wide fammins and stuff, was caused by a (global) fluctuation only about 2 degrees F. a tiny change can make a big difference.
That's because not all of the world warms up by 2 degrees. It's because some parts warm while other parts cool.
now... global cooling. I didn't know that was a separate theory from global warming. In very mundane terms, here's what happens.
greenhouse gases makes the earth warm up, which makes ice melt, which upsets the salitnity around the poles as well as the temperature. There is a worldwide thermohaline current (temperature-salt current... also called the great ocean conveyor) which basically regulates the world's climate... that would be affected by the changes in salt and temperature. If it is disturbed, it stops/slows down/whatever (there's evidence for the effects of it being messed up) and that causes an ice age in the northen hemisphere.
great ocean conveyor:
[b said:
much more than 5 years... where the ... did you... *shuts up*
WAAAAAAY more than 5 years. ... *breathe Luis breathe...*
No wonder global warming is a problem. Everyone believes all the stupid BS they hear from I have no idea where and don't bother to reasearch so they just keep on...
ok... If you think the effects of global warming aren't being seen/felt yet... (now... I'm getting these facts from a project I did earlier this year. I researched them and all... but I didn't get the sources. If you don't believe me, please, just search. even if my sources were wrong I hope you're smart enough to not believe every word either I or anyone says... I could probably find some of the sources if you want...)
A study of mountain plants in the Alps (Europe), shows that some cold-loving plants are starting to move to higher and cooler altitudes.
The vanishing ice in the winter has resulted in an 80 percent drop in the number of Antarctic krill, could threaten Antarctic whales, seals and penguins.
"The Antarctic Peninsula, a key breeding ground for the krill, has warmed by 2.5 degrees Celsius in the last 50 years, with a striking decrease in sea-ice," That air temperature increase is about five times faster than the global mean rate, the scientists noted.
derived from data covering 40 Antarctic summers between 1926 to 2003 that was gathered by nine countries working in Antarctica. He and colleagues combined data from nearly 12,000 net hauls done from 1926-39 and 1976-2003
Arctic study---the eight-nation report compiled by 250 scientists says the Arctic icecap has shrunk by 15-20 % in the past 30 years and the contraction is likely to accelerate.
Climate Change Campaign for the environmental organization WWF published excerpts of the upcoming Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA) report---The Arctic ice cover will completely disappear in summer by the end of this century. It said sea levels could rise by one meter (3.3 feet), noting that there are currently 17 million people living less than one meter above sea level in Bangladesh. It said places like Florida and Louisiana in the United States, and the Asian cities of Bangkok, Calcutta, Dhaka and Manila were also at risk.
"Polar bears could become extinct by the end of this century. They are unlikely to survive as a species if there is an almost complete loss of summer sea ice cover," the WWF said.
Inuit hunters falling through ice, permafrost thawing & destabilizing foundations of buildings & winter roads. the habitat of creatures from polar bears to seals is literally melting away. The permafrost melt is accelerating throughout the world, scientists said at the meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. In addition to northern Alaska, the permafrost zone includes most other Arctic land, such as northern Canada and much of Siberia, as well as the higher reaches of mountainous regions such as the Alps and Tibet. All report permafrost thaw.
what could happen (say goodbye to many of our precious CPs) :
Thomas led a 19-member international team that surveyed habitat decline for 1,103 plant and animal species in five regions: Europe; Queensland, Australia; Mexico's Chihuahuan Desert; the Brazilian Amazon; and the Cape Floristic Region at South Africa's southern tip. The study is being published today in the journal Nature.. thatsaid yesterday that global warming at currently predicted rates will drive 15 to 37 % of living species toward extinction by mid-century midrange estimate is 24 % .
“we're talking about 1.25 million species. It's a massive number"Said ecologist Chris Thomas of Britain's University of Leeds.
now, even if you still have doubts, I think the stakes are too high for us just to ignore the problem. ESPECIALLY on BS like "i love how "scientists" latch on to 5-10 year weather patterns and read something into it other than the natural ebb and flow of the planet. just cause we like to base things on 1 5 or 10 years doesnt mean the planet does."
sigh... I'd better take a break or i'll have a heart attack. To think I could have been typing my memoir which is due tomorrow, or finishing my powerpoints which are due tomorrow and wednesday, or doing my review packets...
ok... If you think the effects of global warming aren't being seen/felt yet... (now... I'm getting these facts from a project I did earlier this year. I researched them and all... but I didn't get the sources. If you don't believe me, please, just search. even if my sources were wrong I hope you're smart enough to not believe every word either I or anyone says... I could probably find some of the sources if you want...)
A study of mountain plants in the Alps (Europe), shows that some cold-loving plants are starting to move to higher and cooler altitudes.
The vanishing ice in the winter has resulted in an 80 percent drop in the number of Antarctic krill, could threaten Antarctic whales, seals and penguins.
"The Antarctic Peninsula, a key breeding ground for the krill, has warmed by 2.5 degrees Celsius in the last 50 years, with a striking decrease in sea-ice," That air temperature increase is about five times faster than the global mean rate, the scientists noted.
derived from data covering 40 Antarctic summers between 1926 to 2003 that was gathered by nine countries working in Antarctica. He and colleagues combined data from nearly 12,000 net hauls done from 1926-39 and 1976-2003
Arctic study---the eight-nation report compiled by 250 scientists says the Arctic icecap has shrunk by 15-20 % in the past 30 years and the contraction is likely to accelerate.
Climate Change Campaign for the environmental organization WWF published excerpts of the upcoming Arctic Climate Impact Assessment (ACIA) report---The Arctic ice cover will completely disappear in summer by the end of this century. It said sea levels could rise by one meter (3.3 feet), noting that there are currently 17 million people living less than one meter above sea level in Bangladesh. It said places like Florida and Louisiana in the United States, and the Asian cities of Bangkok, Calcutta, Dhaka and Manila were also at risk.
"Polar bears could become extinct by the end of this century. They are unlikely to survive as a species if there is an almost complete loss of summer sea ice cover," the WWF said.
Inuit hunters falling through ice, permafrost thawing & destabilizing foundations of buildings & winter roads. the habitat of creatures from polar bears to seals is literally melting away. The permafrost melt is accelerating throughout the world, scientists said at the meeting of the American Geophysical Union (AGU) in San Francisco. In addition to northern Alaska, the permafrost zone includes most other Arctic land, such as northern Canada and much of Siberia, as well as the higher reaches of mountainous regions such as the Alps and Tibet. All report permafrost thaw.
what could happen (say goodbye to many of our precious CPs) :
Thomas led a 19-member international team that surveyed habitat decline for 1,103 plant and animal species in five regions: Europe; Queensland, Australia; Mexico's Chihuahuan Desert; the Brazilian Amazon; and the Cape Floristic Region at South Africa's southern tip. The study is being published today in the journal Nature.. thatsaid yesterday that global warming at currently predicted rates will drive 15 to 37 % of living species toward extinction by mid-century midrange estimate is 24 % .
“we're talking about 1.25 million species. It's a massive number"Said ecologist Chris Thomas of Britain's University of Leeds.
now, even if you still have doubts, I think the stakes are too high for us just to ignore the problem. ESPECIALLY on BS like "i love how "scientists" latch on to 5-10 year weather patterns and read something into it other than the natural ebb and flow of the planet. just cause we like to base things on 1 5 or 10 years doesnt mean the planet does."
sigh... I'd better take a break or i'll have a heart attack. To think I could have been typing my memoir which is due tomorrow, or finishing my powerpoints which are due tomorrow and wednesday, or doing my review packets...
OHHH! well thats different
yep..300 years..it must be our fault..
im sure the average climate *never* trended upwards or downwards for SUCH an amazingly long time as 300 years before!
this is the first time EVER that the climate went in the same direction for such an amazingly long time as 300 years..
the last Ice age only lasted 50 years or so, so im told..
yep, gotta be humans fault..its just SO obvious..
now im really scared!
Scot
it's not going back to the industrial revolution. the heating STARTED at the industrial revolution.
It's not about wether it has been warmer or colder before, it's how fast and why it is warming up, and it is warming up VERY fast and it's because of US.
the ice age you must be reffering to is the little ice age in europe. That's teachnically not an ice age.
and of course that stupid propaganda picture of yours doesn't look anything like the real graph.
... I think we saw it the first time... either give us some real graphs and real facts or something but don't post fake propaganda pictures with no basis on reality.
It's not about wether it has been warmer or colder before, it's how fast and why it is warming up, and it is warming up VERY fast and it's because of US.
the ice age you must be reffering to is the little ice age in europe. That's teachnically not an ice age.
and of course that stupid propaganda picture of yours doesn't look anything like the real graph.
... I think we saw it the first time... either give us some real graphs and real facts or something but don't post fake propaganda pictures with no basis on reality.
It's amazing that selling off one's own future can be defined as "profit" in this society.
Alpha, as to the warming trend technically we are still coming out of the last ice age. places in britain are still rising from when they where pushed down due to the wieght of the ice that covered it. the last info i saw showed the hole in the ozone is shrinking(after how many chicken little scientists swore it would take decades to centerys before it would shrink after we would start behaving ourselves) honestly i think we are giving ourselves to much cedit. do all the greenhouse gases we dump into the air affect things? ofcourse but in the larger scheme of things i dont think we have done as much damage as we are told via mass media, atleast not as much irreversable damage as they have said. not to worry though going by some facts ive heard lately us first world countrys are doing a good job making ourselves sterile(speaking twords men only, but thats an issue for another topic) so it may not be an issue in another 150 years.
first of all, the ozone hole and global warming are two separate issues. Actually I believe the ozone hole causes a slight cooling of at least the upper atmosphere since ozone traps heat (there's also this thing called ozone pollution which is when cars give off ozone in the lower atmosphere which causes it to heat since ozone is another greenhouse gas... ozone is good above, bad below)
and that's true, technically we are, but like I said before it's not about the normal changes in temperature but
also... the ozone hole is another one of those things that shrink and grow. Besides the fact that people have banned CFC's in many countries now (and are better at disposing of them), the size of the "hole" varies from season to season, etc. overall it has been growing a lot... which also coincides with humans and CFC's.
lol... what about sterility?
and that's true, technically we are, but like I said before it's not about the normal changes in temperature but
ok let me put it this way. rain. It's not about weather it's raining or not, what worries people is how fast it is raining, which causes flooding and stuff...and how WHY it is raining. If it's raining because of us and we can stop it, then obviously you should stop the flood before it starts. (I have a feeling people don't like my analogies...lol)[b said:
also... the ozone hole is another one of those things that shrink and grow. Besides the fact that people have banned CFC's in many countries now (and are better at disposing of them), the size of the "hole" varies from season to season, etc. overall it has been growing a lot... which also coincides with humans and CFC's.
lol... what about sterility?
sterility:
one major cause is hormone supplements taken by women. Waste water treatment can't remove them from the treated water. I think it was in colorado that the biggest study was done, there are rivers all but devoid of male fish. Testosterone(sp?) levels in human men who's drinking water come from those rivers are far less then other men who don't drink water from those/that river(s).
I'll see if I can find some info.
one major cause is hormone supplements taken by women. Waste water treatment can't remove them from the treated water. I think it was in colorado that the biggest study was done, there are rivers all but devoid of male fish. Testosterone(sp?) levels in human men who's drinking water come from those rivers are far less then other men who don't drink water from those/that river(s).
I'll see if I can find some info.
<backs away slowly>
oh yeah I heard about that. I think in those same areas there's an increase in human cancer isn't there?
... but I bet it's just natural. I mean... clownfish change sex right? (note the sarcasm)
...
... but I bet it's just natural. I mean... clownfish change sex right? (note the sarcasm)
true... there's this stupid guy in the station I listen to that says environmentalists (as if every single one of them) want to outlaw flush toilets and stuff. Talk about stereotyping. He doesn't even mention why. he just says "Oh what an environmental disaster if people aspire to use flush toilets!!!"[b said:
...
