Non feeding black king snake!

[Sphinxx]

Hi all, i have a 5yr old female black king snake(ive had for 2) who has refused to eat for the last 2-3 months, i have been told this is due to hibernation and/or breeding season although this never happened last spring.

Last month she did not stop moving around, day and night, which is out of character for her

she has shed normally this month and seems in good health (despite not eating)!

her tank is at 85 and the set up has not changed recently,

she is also not at all interested in being handled moves away when ever im near, very jumpy!

Any ideas on how i can get her back to eating again??

Norm eats 3 frozen thawed mice a wk

 

[Mokele]

Given her normal diet, she'll be fine without food for a long while (in fact, I'd recommend cutting that back, unless they're quite small mice; the only adult snakes I've ever fed weekly are super-high metabolism species like gliding treesnakes).

To me, that sounds like she's in breeding condition. She'll eventually calm down, and I wouldn't worry much in the meantime. If you want to be sure, find some scales with the right weight-range (I think Big Apple Herp has some online) and keep track of her weight.

If she calms down but still refuses food, try some brained prey (where you cut the mouse's head open to reveal the brain) or rub the mouse on another snake (since kings are ophiophagous).

Mokele

 

[jimscott]

Other people on this discussion forum that have pet snakes that you can contact are: OZZY, Prizmbatch, and Pinkerton. I'm sure there are more, but these I know for sure.

 

[Sphinxx]

yeah they are small mice, but when i cut back on her food she isnt as easy to manage she gets moody.
shes not looking like shes lost any weight at the moment!
so while shes like this should i not offer her food? or shall i still offer her 1 every week?

 

[Mokele]

Quote[/b] ]yeah they are small mice, but when i cut back on her food she isnt as easy to manage she gets moody.

Well, given how large that species gets, it might be time to move to either large mice or weanling/hopper rats once every two weeks. One big meal will be cheaper and probably keep her more full. RodentPro has a wide assortment and useful pictures to help judge the sizes. A good rule of thumb is that the food should be about equal to the diameter of the snake.

Quote[/b] ]so while shes like this should i not offer her food? or shall i still offer her 1 every week?

Well, when my big boa goes off his food during the winter, I don't bother for a few months, but then I offer every two weeks. If he takes it, I give him rats for a few weeks to regain any lost weight and then back off to the usual schedule of once every two weeks.

Mokele

 

[Sphinxx]

so you think  brained to try to entice her in to eating? I think i'll get some more advice before i change her food because of the sizes, im not confident with the sizing.

See im worried because last summer/autum she stoped eating for a good 4-5 months, i got told by a pet shop owner this was due to breeding season..but i read they only had one breeding season a year?
and now this again, i mean im probably over reacting because she looks fine in herself her skins fine eyes and mouth are clear as far as i can tell and like i said shes lost no weight,
its just a bit un-nerving when you read one thing then hear another, know what i mean?!

 

[rattler]

if she is a healthy weight dont worry about it, offer her a mouse every week till she starts feeding again. as long as her weight is good. a few months without food at her choice is no big deal. sounds to me like she is looking for a boyfriend

i had a blood python refuse food for over 6 months. dont think the nasty twerp lost more than an ounce or two

 

[Mokele]

Quote[/b] ]so you think brained to try to entice her in to eating?

It's worth a shot, and I've had success with braining before.

Quote[/b] ]I think i'll get some more advice before i change her food because of the sizes, im not confident with the sizing.

It's really up to the snake; I've got access to a variety of sizes, so I just try things out and see what my animals will eat.

Quote[/b] ]See im worried because last summer/autum she stoped eating for a good 4-5 months, i got told by a pet shop owner this was due to breeding season..but i read they only had one breeding season a year?

Do you mean last summer as in the one just past, or the one before that? If this is recently, you should probably try to get the snake feeding ASAP.

There is, however, an alternative that comes to mind, given the feeding rate you mentioned. Look at your kingsnake when it's at rest, just hanging out, and look closely at the skin. If you can see any skin at all between the scales, the snake is obese, and you definitely need to cut *way* back on feedings.

Quote[/b] ]its just a bit un-nerving when you read one thing then hear another, know what i mean?!

Sadly, there's a lot of that in the herp community, and no central fact-checking. Person A says species X is agressive, Person B says it's docile. Diet, temps, UV requirements, lots of things have the same problem. It's generally just best to see what works for your animal.

Mokele

 

[Sphinxx]

ok so im gonna try the brianed tomo...i'll let you know if she takes it or not.

Yeah it was last summer, thats why im so concerned about her.....if there was a big time gap i wouldnt be as worried but because it so recent!!

Thanks
Sphinxx
ive checked her out and her scales are all flat, cant see no skin underneath at all.

thats what ive been doing (seeing what works for her) with her feeding, as opposed to listening to people.....half the people who try to advise me in the past have never even owned a snake!!
but after talking to you and thinking about it im gonna up the food size....as soon as she starts eating again that is!!

 

[Mokele]

It's usually better to go with bigger food, though it doesn't matter quite as much with colubrids. Thing is, snakes (especially pythons and boas, but colubirds to a lesser extent) can up- and down-regulate their digestive systems as needed, reducing size, acidity, cell number, intestinal villi length, and absorbancy between feedings to save energy. Having to repeatedly up-regulate then down-regulate due to frequent feedings often means they get less out of the meal, since it costs energy to modify the digestive system.

Plus, less-frequent big meals means less frequent messes on the cage floor.

Mokele

 

[Ozzy]

I've been out of town, that's why I haven't responded to this. Sounds like everybody is giving you good advice. I'll throw my two cents in too.

I have a king snake about the same age as yours. Mine loves to eat. I feed mine every week too. I feed her adult rats and quails. There are some pics of her somewhere on here of her eating a quail and then she came after me for desert, but that's another story.

Sometimes mine will refuse to eat for a month. No big deal, when she's ready I know she'll eat again.

I have one question for you. Do you feed live or frozen? I feed frozen. If I just drop the rat in she'll crawl to it, sometimes she'll strike and then eat it, but most of the time she'll act like it's not even there. I have to move the rat around to make her think it's alive. Sometimes she'll strike constrict and then lose interest. So to prevent that I hold the rat and pull on it after she strikes to make her think it's resisting.
So if you feed with frozen, you might want to try this. Be careful though, make sure you keep your hand out of her way.

 

[rattler]

lol Ozzy, sounds like you speak from experiance. yes if feeding F/T wiggling is needed for some snakes. i use a fish hook remover for this. its got lil jaws that work pergect for grabbing a rats or a mouces tail and it will keep my hand atleast a foot away from the snakes mouth. i have to do this alot with my spotted pythons which is odd since they have been fed F/T since their first meal. my Boa consrictor however slams the rats so hard that if i try to hold on the tail gets ripped off. no wiggling needed for that monster

 

[Mokele]

One of my favorite tricks for boas and pythons is to heat the mouse up under a lamp (not too long or it'll explode). Once the mouse is nice and hot, no wiggling is needed. The retic babies will literally launch themselves out of the cage trying to get the mouse. Pity it won't work on colubrids, though (no heat sensors aside from pit vipers).

Mokele

 

[Sphinxx]

Hi all, so the update is that she STILL has not eaten, i was advised to defrost the mice using a pot of hot water with a smaller pot inside and putting mice in that, did this and she showed no interest whatsoever!!
So i picked one up and wiggled it about..she didnt want to know at all she was more interested in getting out and away!
Was going to try braining but if you have any other suggestions that i could try before doing that i would LOVE to hear them?!!

 

[Bugweed]

I still feed my kingsnakes live food. Old school I'm afraid, but easier for me. The two kings I have make a real show of feeding. Even now during their "season", food is still Numero Uno with these guys!

 

[Sphinxx]

before this she loved her food, it was cool to watch she would go creepin up, launch herself at the mice then wind herself around it before eating it.....now not a thing not an ounce of interest at all.

 

[Mokele]

Quote[/b] ]Hi all, so the update is that she STILL has not eaten, i was advised to defrost the mice using a pot of hot water with a smaller pot inside and putting mice in that, did this and she showed no interest whatsoever!!

Heat won't do anything to entice a strike; outside of pit vipers, no colubroid has IR sensors (The same cannot be said of boids, many of whom have the sensors even if they lack the pits, like boa constrictors).

Quote[/b] ]Was going to try braining but if you have any other suggestions that i could try before doing that i would LOVE to hear them?!!

If you know anyone else with a snake or lizard, try rubbing that on the mouse.

Other than that, your options are braining, force-feeding, and just waiting until she gets hungry. As long as she's not losing weight, don't worry, these animals can go remarkable lengths of time without eating.

Quote[/b] ]I still feed my kingsnakes live food. Old school I'm afraid, but easier for me.

But dangerous for the snake. I've seen pythons with scars all over their heads and missing eyes from when the mouse got a bite in before dying. Live should be reserved as the last option before force-feeding, due to this sort of danger to the animal.

Mokele

 

[Sphinxx]

Yeah gotta say i dont think id try feeding her live, dont like the idea of it at all.
Aside from the dangers of it biting the snake, ive then got to catch the mouse and get it out without the snake making a break for freedom!!
I generally have nieces and my nephew round who are very interested in holding the snake and was advised that if around children you should not feed live food as the snake is more inclined to bite if near feeding day and its feeling a bit hungry...true or not i dont know but am not willing to test the theory!!

 

[Sphinxx]

so am going to try braining in a few days see if that gets her going.
Force feeding? how do you force feed a snake?
shes lost no weight as far as the eye can see, cant get her out as she seems to just want to get away, shes not acting like herself at all still,

 

[Mokele]

Quote[/b] ]Aside from the dangers of it biting the snake, ive then got to catch the mouse and get it out without the snake making a break for freedom!!

and mice typically aren't well-behaved, at least feeder mice. I've gotten some nasty bites from them, worse than anything I've gotten from snakes.

Quote[/b] ]you should not feed live food as the snake is more inclined to bite if near feeding day and its feeling a bit hungry...true or not i dont know but am not willing to test the theory!!

Part of it depends on the snake, I think. Some of my animals don't get snappy even if they smell food, others have such a powerful feeding response that they'll literally fling themselves out of the cage with the force of their strike the moment the door is opened.

Quote[/b] ]Force feeding? how do you force feed a snake?

Typically you don't, but a vet does. If you don't know what you're doing, you can seriously injure the snake, so it's only advisable for experience reptile keepers who've been taught by someone who knows what they're doing.

Quote[/b] ]shes lost no weight as far as the eye can see, cant get her out as she seems to just want to get away, shes not acting like herself at all still

Yeah, season behavior changes are a pain. My lizard goes nuts during the early spring, trying to get out and find a female to mate with.

Mokele