Nepenthes feeding

[AzNsUShi41]

my N.ventricosa is too small to b fed - the lid is too small and doesnt open wide enuff, once i used pressure and almost tared off the lid

havnt tried ants yet.. heres a pix of my n.ventricosa

 

[lol]

Interesting. I ordered some nepenthes about two weeks ago. Most of them were rooted cuttings, some with few roots at all. I soaked all of them in a very sugary water, and I soaked the pots of the highland plants in sugar water. All of the plants are doing great and growing fast. Unfortunately, sugar soaked sphagnum moss stinks a lot, and I'm worried about future harm to the plants...

 

[AzNsUShi41]

wait, tell me more about applying sugary water, im interested

 

[lol]

Justlikeaphil is the one who started it

. He knows more about it than I do. All I can say is, You dont want to soak your pots in the stuff. Just the plants!

 

[Clint]

i just put it in the pitchers, that simple. i'm not sure what soaking them in sugar water does..


my reasoning is, plants produce sugar in their leaves for energy, right? so sugar water must be like liquid energy!

 

[Fygee]

Well, cane sugar may be different from the specific type of sugar that plants produce. From what I remember in biology class, plants produce a type of sucrose and glucose that goes best with it, so putting one type of plant sugar in another sounds rather risky.

I'm guessing its a double edged sword, since you get more growth, but the incompatible bits cause the pitcher to die.

Anyways, I just fed my burkei and my judith finn some squash bugs. darn things are overrunning my pumpkins!

 

[Jason Wong]

Yes, sugar can be converted into energy, didn't you learn physics? E=mc (squared). I suppose it is possible, but I don't think plants can take up molecules of that size up through their roots. Plus it sounds ridiculous. However, what do I have to lose? So here goes...

Jason

 

[Clint]

auctually, i think the reason the pitcher died was because of the concentration of sugar water i put in it.

next time, i'm going to feed granular, dry sugar so i don't dilute the digestive fluids in the pitcher.

 

[CP2k]

Hi Jason,

m=mass, so by your argument, we should be able to feed our nepenthes pieces of paper and maybe even water
Try protein instead of sugar...

 

[pond boy]

I tried protein powder diluted with water with my N.rafllesiana caused the top half of the pitcher to die but the next one was over twice it`s size!

 

[lithopsman]

Noah,
That is an interesting result, yet I am not really surprised. The typical protein powder generally contains about 50% of the daily recomended value of protein for humans. A cricket contains 5-20. So we are looking at between 2 and 10 times the amount of protein.

Of course, also consider rafflesiana does this with just "normal" feeding occasionally, because it is a fast growing plant. How big was the first pitcher fed, and the resulting pitcher?
~LM~

 

[pond boy]

First pitcher about 3\4 of an inch second pitcher just under 2 inches.

 

[chesara]

At the moment here in the UK(New Forest)we are being plaqued with wasps,i dont know how nutritous they are but my plants are getting full of them.I havent needed to feed for a while now as flys and moths are adding to the body count also.

Bye for now Julian

 

[AaronJ]

I must say that my preference is to feed the plants the natural way.  However, I find the quantity of insects (I use Crickets) needed is just not viable in the longer-term.

Now, as I think we will all accept that most feeder insects are a suitable foor source for our Neps I thought the best would be to find a prepared food (say Koi pellets as many of you use) as a substitute.

Out of curiosity, I did a bit of a search on the web for the nutritional analysis of various feeder insects.  The following is the average result from Crickets, Mealworms, Superworms, Waxworms, Fly larvae and a few others (from about 10 samples):

Moisture: 68%
Protein: 21%
Fat: 12%
Fibre: 3%
Ash: 3%
Ca: 352ppm
P: 2894ppm

The following is just Crickets on their own (from 4 samples):

Moisture: 73%
Protein: 18%
Fat: 10%
Fibre: 2%
Ash: 4%
Ca: 345ppm
P: 3428ppm


So discounting moisture and some of the other elements this is what some of the pellett pet foods look like:

Hikari Koi Pellets - Sho Koi Pellets - Hikari Turtle Pellets
Moisture: 10% - 10% - 10%
Protein: 35% - 38% - 40%
Fat: 3% - 6% - 7%
Fibre: 5% - 3% - 2%
Ash: 12% - 4% - 11%

Cichlid pellets were about the same.

So other than being a bit higher on the protein side of things they are all pretty close (as expected I suppose!).

Has anyone had any NEGATIVE experiences using pellets that could not be accounted to simply overfeeding?

Aaron.

 

[Tony Paroubek]

I have not had good results with fish foods. Pitchers tend to blacken or have problems with fungus/bacteria in the pitcher causing spots or dead pitchers. I am guessing that it could be from high salts in the food, and/or overfeeding or what I would call fast release feeding. Insects are mostly a slow release food while fish food will breakdown very fast.

I think these could work (or other types like protein powders, milk etc) but alot of experimentation and care is needed to find which work and the amounts to give the pitcher/plant.

Tony

 

[AaronJ]

Makes sense Tony.

I was also concerned about the slat content of these prepared foods.

With regards to "fast release feeding"  I suppose that's where it comes back to quantities and frequency.

Most that report of feeding insects seem to do it rather infrequently.  Maybe a key factor with reptile and fish pellets will be to feed less but more often as to avoid stagnating the pitcher fluid?

I've heard a few here mentioned using Can O'Crickets.  Base on the producers web sight I get the impression these are still moist (i.e. not freeze dried)?  If so are they in a liquid or just plain old crickets?  I'm just trying to imagine what they must be like.

How about storage once open?

Tony, I'm sure you would know, but how much has actually been done to compare the various forms of feeding on Neps?  I was thinking it would be interesting to do a little experiment on some cheap and commonly available Neps.  Maybe say 5-10 plants per sample group.  G1 - nothing added at all. G2 - Say, crickets only. G3 - Koi Pellets only. G4 - some type of foliar fertiliser. G5 combination of all?

Obviously quantities and frequency would need to be set and it would not be an overly precise experiment, but might be interesting if not already done?

Aaron.

 

[lithopsman]

Aaron,
The Can O' Crickets (and all other can O products) are actually pasturized(!) insects that are in a sealed can. Storage after opening is reccomended to be refrigeration to preserve the food. I use these with some of my reptiles, and have fed them to the bigger pitchered plants like ramispina and x Judith Finn. Seems to be a nice feeding, but in my experiance, as long as the right food-plant size ratio is obeyed, all plants benefit from all of the foods I listed earlier.

Actually need to go feed the plants about now.

~JM~

 

[AaronJ]

Thanks JM,

I had a quick look on the Zoo Med site and their range seems to have increased:

Can O’ Grasshoppers
Can O’ Snails
Can O’ Worms
Can O’ Crickets
Can O’ Mini Crickets
Can O’Pillars
Can O’Mini Mealies

I feel these may be the most convenient method for me to feed my plants at this stage (not willing to try fertilisers just yet) as being in a large sealed glasshouse not too many bugs make it in there.

Last question... how long do they keep in the fridge for after opening?

Will give them a go.

Aaron.

 

[Clint]

hmm... why do neps need protein at all? they don't have muscles...

 

[lithopsman]

They keep for up to a few months as long as they are opened enough to keep them from getting "stale"...

John