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Nepenthes feeding

  • #21
I have not had the guts to try this yet(though I got a used blender in case I want to), but I have heard some people got good growth by putting crickets in a blender with some water, blasting them, and then running this solution through cheese cloth to remove all the chitonous bits. Then they used a dropper to feed the solution to the pitchers.
I won't get any takers on having a margarita party at my place, but the plants would be happy
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Regards,

Joe
 
  • #22
They have a variety of freeze dried or otherwise canned insects these days at most reptile suppliers. The price of a can of freeze dried crickets compared to a wholesale sack of just fed live crickets (which can be frozen and kept that way) are a lot more when you count the cost per cricket. Of course, if you have just one or two plants a huge bag of frozen crickets might be overdoing it a little!

Someone asked about fat, I've heard that may be what causes the pitchers rot when they are fed things like bloodworms, superworms and moths. However, Khai (an old forum member) claimed to have fed toads to the large display truncatas at Orchids Ltd.  without rotting and toads would certainly contain more fat than a moth. I can not verify this as I wasn't there but the trucata pitchers are enormous and woody and perhps they could deal with the heavy prey items such as this.
 
  • #23
I am sure your right about the cost of live vs canned/freeze dried. I got the freeze dried simply for convienence since I don't have a freezer at the greenhouse to store stuff. I also tend to not follow a rigid feeding program. I run around the greenhouse and try and feed new pitchers that have opened since I last ran around.. Sometimes I toss a small amount into previously fed pitchers also. I figure I would rather have the plants growing strongly even if it means I lose a pitcher here and there by overfeeding. Worst case scenario the plants I lose a pitcher but the next set the plant produces will be that much bigger and showier!

I have used dried bloodworm without any problems so not sure what the deal is there. I have tried various fish foods with some success. I found though that pitchers would blacken with it easily. I suspect that some fish food has high mineral/salt content which is the culprit. Some Nepenthes are deffinately more tolerant. N. truncata is like shoeleather.. you could toss in just about anything and it wouldn't flinch.

Tony


You should see me trying to stuff one of them tiny ants into a 1cm baby Nepenthes pitcher LOL...
 
  • #24
Gee that's a nice plant Tony. What is it?
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Also, is that perlite I see around the base of the plant or something else perhaps?

Just passing by...
 
  • #25
BAD ROB!!!  

Yes it is perlite..  
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well some of it lol.

I admit there is some slow release fertilizer there too.  In a greenhouse packed with plants it is not feasible to hand feed everything to my satisfaction.  So alternative methods are needed to keep the plants healthy and growing vigorously.  I try not to get into talking to hobbiest about inorganic fertilizer simply because it is risky and a well feed Nepenthes the natural way will be just as healthy.

Tony

O yeah.. if you look realllly close you can read the label. N. lowii (from Trus Madi) Yep that's what it says!  It's not though and I keep forgetting to return them for a credit. Can't imagine why.
 
  • #26
I snapped this picture this morning.  It doesn't show as much as I hoped it would.

Some background.  These are two flats of N. burkei growing under about 50% shade.  They were not increasing much in size and they were looking a bit pale.  Even with some attempts to feed the pitchers.  For the most part the plants were all pretty similar in size.  I was running around with my slow release fertilizer and decided I would try some on these flats.  I was in a rush and these plants are packed tight.  One of the challenges is trying to get the pellets down on the soil surface and not lodged in the leaf axils where it can cause considerable damage.  These two flats were also in need of some cleaning up of old leaves and pitchers.  Making it particularly difficult to apply fertilizer pellets.  The result was that some got a decent supply while others ended up with barely any.  If you look carefully you will see the result after a couple months later.  You can still see some of the smaller paler plants that missed the feeding.  (I have subsequently gone back and reapplied to those poor fellas).   PLEASE keep in mind this is not a plug for folks to start throwing slow release fertilizer on their plants.  I can not emphasize enough that results of such actions will vary significantly for each person and will depend greatly on how often you water, what kind is used, the plants it is given too etc.  Without careful personal experimentation you risk serious injury to your plants.  This is instead to further highlight how much Nepenthes can benefit from feeding.  Plants fed the natural way would show very satisfactory results as well!
Tony

nferttray.jpg
 
  • #27
Veerrry interesting, Tony. My ventricosa looks a lot like those "pale, unfed" plants, so i'd like to try feeding it. I've suspected for a while that the yellow tone is due to chlorolysis (sp?) from lack of some micronutrient, because i do feed the pitchers macro nutritional stuff. Does the slow-release you used have chelated iron, by chance?

I'm thinking of spraying the plant with a very dilute solution of a micronutrient chelate powder i have. Would it be better to water with this than spray with it?
 
  • #28
D muscipula,

The product I use does have macro and minor elements in it. Which include iron, calcium, magnesium, sulfur and some others.

Overall pale color is generally attributed to insufficient nitrogen although it could be compounded by one or more deficiencies of minor elements.

Magnesium deficiency will cause older leaves to yellow prematurely. Iron deficiency will cause new leaves to have interveinal chlorosis or in severe cases turn pure white. What are you giving your plants now? How often? and what strength?

Plants grow at a steady pace. Feeding them a couple times a month or some such thing with liquid food is like feast/starve for them. Any benefit from the brief feeding is lost quickly when the plant is then starved for a week or two. Slow release fertilizer fixes this by giving the plant a little food every day. Feeding the plants regularly with insects also accomplishes the same task.
Tony
 
  • #29
Sorry for my naughty post earlier Tony, just couldn't resist
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I have little time to spend on the forum these days but feeding of Neps is never far from my mind. I think you are right though, natural feeding must surely be the best way if the quantity of plants in a collection permits. I wish we could do it here.

The "N. lowii" you showed in the first post really is beautiful now isn't it? The latest leaf looks fabulous and it would be interesting indeed to see the pitcher that forms from that leaf. I am wondering if it will color up properly or not. I've found that a compromise between speed of growth and toughness and coloration of pitchers is necessary with slow-release fertilizers (at least the ones I've tried). There seems to be little limit to the size of the next leaf that can be produced if one doesn't mind tiny green pitchers. Red N. ampullaria can be turned entirely green by too much slow-release fertilizer but a few leaves later it reverts back to normal coloration.

If one is seriously using slow release fertilizers then flushing through with a lot of water seems to be very important. Also monitoring of the pH of the media is advisable too. If pH goes too low that can lead to all sorts of problems. We repot at least every 4 to 6 months to overcome this risk. I'm off to the highlands in a few minutes time. I'll try to get a photo of the stalactites under our benches resulting from the extended use of slow release fertilizers. Perhaps we should break them off, grind them up and use them again to save costs
wink.gif
 
  • #30
Interesting observation on pitcher size/color. I have not seen much of that happening although I suspect with such a dramatic increase in leaf size from one to the next on that 'N. lowii' that I will lose the 1:1 pitcher/leaf ratio. Mostly my experience is with the highlands and perhaps your observation is more with lowlands? You mention the N. ampullaria which I don't have as much experience with. Or perhaps it is related to the type used and/or the species. Or perhaps it is from amount applied. I will deffinately take a picture when it opens up. The new leaf in the picture is unfolding now too.

Tony
 
  • #31
The neps sold at our local shops all have slow-release fertilisers in the soil. These little yellow round things are found even with very young plants freshly out from tissue culture.

I agree with Borneo that heavy watering is required if one wants to use the fertilisers. I've learnt it the hard way when a plant I bought had its pitchers all browning within a week. I watered it only once in two days.
 
  • #32
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Dave S. @ June 27 2003,06:24)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I learned that fish food trick on the same day, go figure. I have seen dramatic results from using koi food pellets. I did my own experiment using three N. x Judith Finns that were all about the same size. I fed one with the koi pellets, one with  ants, spiders, etc. and I left the third one alone. The very next leaves and pitchers nearly doubled in size on the koi pellet food. The other two continued to grow at the previous pace. I have since switched them all to koi pellets and add an occasional bug now and then.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
where do u get this stuff i cant find it anywhere
pm me
 
  • #33
I have had good results fertilizing N. rajah, N. hamata, N. bicalcarata and N. fusca and some N. maxima hybrids that I don't know the exact parents of. I did not use osmocote or any other time-release granules but Urea Free orchid fertilizers made into a soft (1/4 strength) solution and fed both foliar and through the soil. Aside from the above the other neps just continued on at what appears to be their normal Nep speed, my N. ramispina however showed increasingly smaller pitchers until it made none at all. Stopping fertilizing has made it's pitchers nice again plus the plant is much bigger. I wonder how it would affect the health of the plant to heavily feed a slow growing nep (say N. lowii) and say "d@mn the pitchers" and then after it reaches a respectable size then repot and quit fertilizing and see if it causes it to then make big pitchers sooner... anyone ever try that to see the results?

Rob, when you say you repot every six months or so do you entirely wash off the soil from the root system or simply move a plug with the rootmass (undisturbed) to a new container, basically just doing away with the bulk of old soil? Do you only repot due to the slow release fertilizer or as a rule even for un-fertilized plants?

Back on the topic of traditional fertilizing (i.e feeding with insects) it only took 90 minutes in the freezer to euthanize the crickets I purchased today (usually I leave them in there overnight).This is the first time I've done a feeding only two or three weeks after the last. I also fed every pitcher (large enough to feed) that has not shriveled or discolored, I think I could be getting better results from feeding more often and by utilizing the older pitchers. In the past I've only fed the latest 3 pitchers when I did feeding but I got to thinking, in the wild there would likely be insects attracted to the old pitchers. Perhaps insects of different types if the nectar glands are not active on the old pitchers.
 
  • #34
Leave a banana outside for half a day to let the fly’s lay eggs and then let the eggs hatch where you lay the banana and maggots turn into fly’s, its a lot easier than catching fly’s.
 
  • #35
Hi Josh, a bit of a belated reply.  Sorry about that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rob, when you say you repot every six months or so do you entirely wash off the soil from the root system or simply move a plug with the rootmass (undisturbed) to a new container, basically just doing away with the bulk of old soil? Do you only repot due to the slow release fertilizer or as a rule even for un-fertilized plants?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Firstly, I never disturb the roots unless absolutely necessary.  We use pure cocopeat here which breaks down completely over a period of 1-2 years.  For small production plants (less than about 12" dia) we repot frequently, preserving the root ball. However, some of the older stock plants in the lowlands which are over 12 feet tall have  been left alone.  The potting media has broken down and almost washed from the pots entirely leaving nothing but a massive root ball.  The plants just keep on going, pitchering and flowering as normal.

These plants are just strange.  If all other conditions are correct they can manage with one factor entirely wrong. I have several N. bicalcaratas that grew up from seedlings in 3" diameter pots.  They are still in 3" pots now and are over 4 feet in diameter.  I suspect that if the humidity were to drop too low or they were not watered for a day or so they would croak immediately.

Finally, slow release fertilizers.  I believe that Tony is absolutely right in saying that natural feeding is the best way but slow release has it's place.  As promised, here's a horribly out of focus photo of an 6" stalactite under one of our benches.

Rob

stalactite.jpg
 
  • #36
Rob,

Oh please give us a pic of the 4' diameter bicals in 3" pots!
Do you think they would somehow get bigger if repotted? I was thinking that was pretty close to max diameter.

Joe
 
  • #37
BTW, I have a reptile supply catalog that has dry roasted mealworms(yummy) for something like 2000 for $17.99 and 10,000 for $55 or so. It claims that they don't really go bad. I imagine they are cheap because you might have to trick your lizards to take non-moving food, but the Nepenthes certainly would not object.

joe
 
  • #38
Hi all:

Talking about diets:

I just bought a container of axolotl food. it contains at least 50% protein and 9% fat 7% fiber. The rest is not mentioned. they are tiny pellets so I am trying to see how it goes. Since here in Australia is very cold at the moment, there are no available insects to feed my plants!!!. I tried crickets, but Usually they exceed in numbers to the number of pitchers available for feeding. therefore, they die soon after and it is a waste of money.

Let's hope nothing major happens to my pitchers.

Gus
 
  • #39
i have not fed my nepenthes in a long time, a year probably, i noticed they are growing slowly,... look pretty healthy but growing slowly, i was wondering if this http://exoticgardens.zoovy.com/product/CRICKETS would be any help to them, i will read some more on feeding them, they are inside a screen and do not really catch many of there own food, so i think this stuff will be a nice meal
 
  • #40
How about frog pellets? They are so PROTEIN that you can smell them before the lid of the jar is completely off...

More importantly, they DELIVERED legs to my bullfrog tadpoles in 2 weeks flat...the over-the-shelf amphibian pellets didn't work so I went to consult the old uncle who sold us the tadpoles...he owns a bullfrog farm...  
rolleyes.gif


Anyway, I'll experiment someday...

Oh btw, thanks to Tony and the rest who posted on this thread, I fertilised my neps with orchid fertiliser and they are looking much better with more green on the leaves.
 
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