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Ne. edwardsiana
- Thread starter mAdmAx
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- culture edwardsiana
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It will, eventually. Not all species are easy to propagate in vitro. Getting seeds to germinate in vitro can be challenging enough, but getting the germinated material to respond to the various hormones in the tissue culture process is another challenge. Different species require different hormones, and in different amounts. Edwardsiana is one of those that has proven challenging, but it is being done.
As I've said many a time before, patience is a virtue.
As I've said many a time before, patience is a virtue.
Can't wait untill they sell N. edwardsiana. I will immediately buy 1(or a few).
And now I'm waiting for an N. viking.(very high prizes around 100-200 dollars!!!!)
And now I'm waiting for an N. viking.(very high prizes around 100-200 dollars!!!!)
nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
N. viking?
It's a undescribed specie from Thailand.
I noticed there has been an increased demand to have this plant around. It looks like the black market may be the one to have it first. Hopefully it's the real thing and not a hybrid with villosa or anything like that.
Gus
Gus
There is one commercial establishment and one hobbyist that I'm aware of with tissue culture material of edwardsiana.
And Gus, I assume by black market you mean private market ... There is a bit of legal private trade around.
Hamish:
I think we are about to open another pandora box!.
Seeds, as far as the laws of Australia are concerned, yes there is a legal trade. however, the individual laws of each country may vary, thus, collection of seeds for example of a new variety of N. rajah recently found, is illegal in Malaysia. Thus the moment a seed collector collects the seed from this particular plant is breaking the law in Malaysia, but if the seed
gets to Australia and passes the quarantine inspection, then there is no problem here.
BTW, this is not the typical rajah so it should not be on CITES list 1 nor 2!.
So the question remains, who is breaking the law and who isn't?
Gus
I think we are about to open another pandora box!.
Seeds, as far as the laws of Australia are concerned, yes there is a legal trade. however, the individual laws of each country may vary, thus, collection of seeds for example of a new variety of N. rajah recently found, is illegal in Malaysia. Thus the moment a seed collector collects the seed from this particular plant is breaking the law in Malaysia, but if the seed
gets to Australia and passes the quarantine inspection, then there is no problem here.
BTW, this is not the typical rajah so it should not be on CITES list 1 nor 2!.
So the question remains, who is breaking the law and who isn't?
Gus
Pandora was simply a trend setter! Seed or plant material collected in breach of local law, or imported in breach CITES would be illegal. CITES, however, is several debates unto itself. But any breach of a law anywhere along the chain would render the seed or material illegal. I have strong suspicions that a lot of the material in cultivation would not pass that test (even some stuff from commercial growers and in botanical gardens), as there's so much illegal seed collection it's not funny.
There is legal seed collection, both by commercial establishments and hard-core collectors. Whether all of that material is legally imported into the destination country is another matter. Even if you had the proper licences and CITES import permits etc, complying with Australia's quarantine regime, for example, would render a fair bit of Nepenthes seed infertile.
On the other side of the coin, there is so much legal and "illegal" logging in places like Indonesia and Malaysia that it makes a mockery of the conservation laws there. Is it illegal to collect seed from plants that are about to be bulldozed to the ground and burnt...? Maybe strictly illegal in the jurisdiction, but the ethics are enough to make one's head explode.
Hamish
There is legal seed collection, both by commercial establishments and hard-core collectors. Whether all of that material is legally imported into the destination country is another matter. Even if you had the proper licences and CITES import permits etc, complying with Australia's quarantine regime, for example, would render a fair bit of Nepenthes seed infertile.
On the other side of the coin, there is so much legal and "illegal" logging in places like Indonesia and Malaysia that it makes a mockery of the conservation laws there. Is it illegal to collect seed from plants that are about to be bulldozed to the ground and burnt...? Maybe strictly illegal in the jurisdiction, but the ethics are enough to make one's head explode.
Hamish
Exactly. So we can go back to the main point of the original topic. How could someone take seeds of N. edwardsiana without a proper permit?. As far as I know, nobody is allowed to collect seeds from this species and many other species as well. Whether people respect the laws or not, it is a different matter. If there are people who have these seeds, then they must have gotten it illegally, but this is a topic for a different thread.
BTW, i am no one to say what's right or wrong, because i am a human being with virtues and defects like anyone else. I just wanted to explain why i mentioned the word "black market"
Gus
BTW, i am no one to say what's right or wrong, because i am a human being with virtues and defects like anyone else. I just wanted to explain why i mentioned the word "black market"
Gus
Ok gang.. What CITES specifically says:
ALL Nepenthes are listed as Appendix II if they are not already listed as appendix I. This includes undescribed/unnamed/undiscovered species as well. This appendix II designation includes all plant parts and derivatives EXCEPT: Seeds, spores and pollen/pollinia, seedlings or tissue cultures obtained in vitro and in sterile containers, cut flowers of artificially propagated plants.
Of course there are local laws reguarding collecting or exporting or importing from country to country which have nothing to do with CITES. I am not going to even get into that mess as to what is legal or illegal here.
Tony
ALL Nepenthes are listed as Appendix II if they are not already listed as appendix I. This includes undescribed/unnamed/undiscovered species as well. This appendix II designation includes all plant parts and derivatives EXCEPT: Seeds, spores and pollen/pollinia, seedlings or tissue cultures obtained in vitro and in sterile containers, cut flowers of artificially propagated plants.
Of course there are local laws reguarding collecting or exporting or importing from country to country which have nothing to do with CITES. I am not going to even get into that mess as to what is legal or illegal here.
Tony
AKAIK, the Kinabalu park has actually allowed collection of N. edwardsiana seed under special circumstances.
I admit I am iffy on what parts of Borneo are under what countries, so I don't know if they are considered Malaysia or not.
Cheers,
Joe
I admit I am iffy on what parts of Borneo are under what countries, so I don't know if they are considered Malaysia or not.
Cheers,
Joe
Hi all:
Yes, Tony. Nep seeds are exempted from CITES regulations, but the local laws of each country may still render seed collection as Illegal.
It'd be interesting to know under what special circumstances seed collection is allowed in Borneo: Does anyone know?
Gus
Yes, Tony. Nep seeds are exempted from CITES regulations, but the local laws of each country may still render seed collection as Illegal.
It'd be interesting to know under what special circumstances seed collection is allowed in Borneo: Does anyone know?
Gus
Yes that's true Gus. But it would be incorrect to say that such a plant must have been obtained illegally if it turns up at a nursery. It could very well be they had permission.
I don't know the specifics on obtaining permission. Some locations are more strict than others. Many understand to help preserve the plants in nature an effort must also be made in cultivation/conservation. Reducing the pressure on wild plants by smugglers is one way. Making the plants available for a reasonable price commercially goes a long way.
Tony
I don't know the specifics on obtaining permission. Some locations are more strict than others. Many understand to help preserve the plants in nature an effort must also be made in cultivation/conservation. Reducing the pressure on wild plants by smugglers is one way. Making the plants available for a reasonable price commercially goes a long way.
Tony
Aren't plants found in National Parks completely protected, including seed? I don't know what law that would break, but at least here in the US you can't even remove a rock if it's within the boundaries of a Nat'l Park. I don't know at what level this is enforced.
I know there are channels to get protected and CITES listed plants into commercial propagation legally and above board. There's a Paphiopedilum nursery not too far from Tony that offers Paph. vietnamensis, a species only recently discovered.
Gus, what's this about a newly found variety of N. rajah? Please illuminate us with what you've heard!
Trent
I know there are channels to get protected and CITES listed plants into commercial propagation legally and above board. There's a Paphiopedilum nursery not too far from Tony that offers Paph. vietnamensis, a species only recently discovered.
Gus, what's this about a newly found variety of N. rajah? Please illuminate us with what you've heard!
Trent
I think you'll find that collecting any material from National Parks without a permit is illegal in most countries, be it plants, seeds and even rocks in some places. If those fusca seeds were collected within the boundaries of a national park, then I can almost guarantee you they were not legally collected. Permits are also extremely difficult to get hold of.