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Hope and Change! woo!

  • #61
The most prosperous times in American history were marked by a far, far higher marginal tax rate for the rich. In the fifties and sixties, the super-rich paid as much as 90%! (you had to be real rich for that)

It didn't do any of the bad things that some people here fear (I'm looking at you, rattler). What it did was spread the wealth a bit and subsequently we had a thriving middle class, great schools, and public services. It made an atmosphere in which people had a little money to spend - our economy is in the crapper right now because nobody can afford to pay for anything. Businesses don't have customers. But, ironically, the rich just keep getting richer and richer. The only other time we had this big an income disparity between rich and poor was in the great depression. It is not healthy - we need to stop thinking that you can get rich with lower taxes. YOU CANNOT.

In fact, if you look around the world, the most prosperous countries (and some are surprised to find out it's not us) have uniformly higher tax rates than we do. Of course, in return, everyone has health care, everyone get a good education, and everyone has access to robust public services. Denmark, one of these "socialist" countries, produces more millionaires per capita than any nation on earth. Rich people do not leave such places because they are better to live in than a country where you can get super rich, but must live among impoverished people. Additionally, creating a huge underclass the way we have means you have more crime, more hopelessness, and more people just giving up rather than making an unworkable wage for a soul-less corporation. You want a vision of no regulation, low taxes for the rich, and underfunded services? Go visit Calcutta.

Unlike some liberals, I personally am a staunch capitalist. I've run my own businesses since college, and I've succeeded in getting rich. I'm a CEO. I've employed a lot of people for a long time at high salaries. I'm not some free-loading lazy bum who's looking for a handout. I have three homes, a boat, and plenty of money. But I have a tiny fraction of what a lot of these crazy CEOs we see on TV make. They make more in one bonus than I"ll see in my lifetime. And we're going to protect THEM from higher taxes? I'm begging you - tax the rich. Tax ME more. It is vital for the health of our society, for our economy, for your kids' futures. Don't believe the hype. You have a better chance of getting rich in an economy where the rich are taxed more. It may be counter intuitive, but the more the schools decline, the lower the median income gets, the more people are struggling to make ends meet, the worse everyone's opportunities get. It is not healthy to aggregate wealth in the hands of an elite few. That's what happened before the Great Depression, and it's been happening now. Stop worrying about the rich! We're rich already! Worry about the family that's struggling down the street. They are the future - and their kids will either end up in universities or in prisons based on the decisions we make today. Worry about them, not Bill Gates. Bill Gates doesn't give a damn about his tax rate - I guarantee you.
 
  • #62
answer is to tax the crap out of imported goods.....make it so the junk from China isnt the cheapest stuff.....it forces competition and allows companies in the US a chance to compete.....US employers cant compete with the Chinese near slave labor.....thats why most the crap that used to be made in the US is now made in china.....they can pay chinese workers a fraction of what they can pay an American......so tax the crap out of the imports and drop the taxes on employers that set up shop 100% within the US....taxing the crap out of the rich will just force more jobs out of the country.....its a theory that doesnt work.....

What kind of a time frame are we talking here in terms of effectiveness and positive change? It's a great idea, but how do you think China would react to drastic trade protectionism at this point? We owe them billions and billions of dollars and we use debt funded by China every year just to keep this country running. I like your idea, but given the current financial situation we are in we cannot afford such a drastic measure.

Phil

---------- Post added at 12:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:09 PM ----------

The most prosperous times in American history were marked by a far, far higher marginal tax rate for the rich. In the fifties and sixties, the super-rich paid as much as 90%! (you had to be real rich for that)

It didn't do any of the bad things that some people here fear (I'm looking at you, rattler). What it did was spread the wealth a bit and subsequently we had a thriving middle class, great schools, and public services. It made an atmosphere in which people had a little money to spend - our economy is in the crapper right now because nobody can afford to pay for anything. Businesses don't have customers. But, ironically, the rich just keep getting richer and richer. The only other time we had this big an income disparity between rich and poor was in the great depression. It is not healthy - we need to stop thinking that you can get rich with lower taxes. YOU CANNOT.

In fact, if you look around the world, the most prosperous countries (and some are surprised to find out it's not us) have uniformly higher tax rates than we do. Of course, in return, everyone has health care, everyone get a good education, and everyone has access to robust public services. Denmark, one of these "socialist" countries, produces more millionaires per capita than any nation on earth. Rich people do not leave such places because they are better to live in than a country where you can get super rich, but must live among impoverished people. Additionally, creating a huge underclass the way we have means you have more crime, more hopelessness, and more people just giving up rather than making an unworkable wage for a soul-less corporation. You want a vision of no regulation, low taxes for the rich, and underfunded services? Go visit Calcutta.

Unlike some liberals, I personally am a staunch capitalist. I've run my own businesses since college, and I've succeeded in getting rich. I'm a CEO. I've employed a lot of people for a long time at high salaries. I'm not some free-loading lazy bum who's looking for a handout. I have three homes, a boat, and plenty of money. But I have a tiny fraction of what a lot of these crazy CEOs we see on TV make. They make more in one bonus than I"ll see in my lifetime. And we're going to protect THEM from higher taxes? I'm begging you - tax the rich. Tax ME more. It is vital for the health of our society, for our economy, for your kids' futures. Don't believe the hype. You have a better chance of getting rich in an economy where the rich are taxed more. It may be counter intuitive, but the more the schools decline, the lower the median income gets, the more people are struggling to make ends meet, the worse everyone's opportunities get. It is not healthy to aggregate wealth in the hands of an elite few. That's what happened before the Great Depression, and it's been happening now. Stop worrying about the rich! We're rich already! Worry about the family that's struggling down the street. They are the future - and their kids will either end up in universities or in prisons based on the decisions we make today. Worry about them, not Bill Gates. Bill Gates doesn't give a damn about his tax rate - I guarantee you.

I respect your take on the salaries and bonuses of CEOs. I am currently working on my MBA and I had a project last year based on bonus and incentive structures of CEOs. There are multiple CEOs that are pulling in millions per year on bonuses alone. The particluar CEO that I used was making approximately 18.7 million per year. Needless to say the section in my report dedicated to my opinion was not pretty.
 
  • #63
Holy Crap, how did I miss this thread ! Well I have to inject my thoughts and opinions here as well I suppose. Take them for what they're worth (free). I get so sick and tired of the only choice we have to vote for is the one that is the lesser of 2 evils. That is how I see the MA election results. What happens now will probably be business as usual once he gets settled into office. A 2 party system only succeeds in keeping the majority opinion down due to the fact I don't believe there are 45% Dems and 45% Reps. That would only leave 10% of the people with a real thoughtful opinion. Dems. rely on votes bought with public funding of one sort or another and the promise of equality. Reps. rely on votes bought with tax breaks and the promise of "freedom".

Here are a couple independent thoughts that I wonder if anyone might agree with. In no certain order.

1- I want and like to work hard for money to provide for my family.
1A- If my grandparents worked hard to get ahead then let them tell us where their money should go. Repeal estate taxes.
2- I want to keep the money I earned to be spent as I see fit for my family.
3- I want my kids to have a real unbiased education that doesn't favor one way or the other (creation / evolution etc...).
4- I want my neighbor to have the right to believe that Nepenthes are the food of the gods and are to be worshiped on 3rd Tuesday of Neptune. I'll worry about my own household. If he wants to tell me about it every time I'm outside that's his right, I'll move if it really bugs me.
5- Someone is always a victim. Help them back on their feet and move on.If they are a victim again provide more help and better education. 3rd time around what the heck ! There is a limit to the publics generosity.
6- The bankers/lawyers/candlestick makers that make a hole crap load of money need to reigned in. Not sure how but with a lot of smart people out there I'm sure we can figure something out. Yes they have a right to make a bunch of money but when the workers under them are struggling the people should not have to be told to help out. Granted greed and stupidity are alive and well, we may need to pass a common courtesy law.
7- Politicians need to have term limits that are geared toward public service instead of keeping the pork flowing home.
8- Lobbyists have no rights and the count of 10 clear out and quit mucking up the place. After the 10 count the remainder will be allowed to help there constituents by working in a food line back home.
9- I accept you right to say I'm an idiot, just don't start with my kids until they are old enough to form opinions of their own. Just because I don't agree with your progressive ideas doesn't mean we can't have a decent conversation.
10- The term "Black Project" needs to be a thing of the past. Secret ok, hush hush better. Either way the President and Congress should be held responsible for ALL that we do in the dark of the night.
11- Health care should be affordable for everyone. Varying degrees of service should be available for purchase through our employer or if I like my own then give me all that money the company didn't spend on my healthcare so I can get my own. Young people need help 20's, Old people need help 60's + and the handicapped also need some special privileges. Medicare works just get rid of the fraud !!!! COMPETENT oversight might be required ?
12- Frivolous lawsuits need to be done away with. (Google - Kankakee School and Taser) There are people without common sense in this world, fine them but don't make me pay for their stupidity.
13- Clarity in our Govt. processes. Who really understands what goes on and wants to get in the middle of the monkey pile.
14- Take my money for the benefit of the whole (taxes) but don't use it in an obvious way that goes against what I believe. There are plenty of special interest groups that can provide services to those in need. This works both ways here guys, I won't force the 6000 year old earth theory to be taught along side geology.
15- Discrimination has been gradually been dying out (literally), the next generation is better than the last and so on. Our kids should be pretty well adjusted.
16- Our southern border has no real purpose other than to cause enmity between 2 hard working countries. It's not like the thing works anyhow. Let's collect taxes via work visas and stop the madness. Oh ya, your gonna have to pay more for sweet corn and strawberries in Dec. just a warning.
17- Legalize the devil weed. We can collect taxes, maybe drop some expensive treatment meds. that big pharma is pushing and save some mules lives. Just the increase in the snack industry will provide more jobs for US workers.
18- Weed out corruption, nepotism, lazyism, egoism, and idiotism from Illinois Govt. then work towards Washington and then to our southern border friends.
19 - A new day is coming for those that choose to participate. Those that don't well, sorry but we'll cross that bridge when we get to it.
 
  • #64
Capslock.....your missing a major point....in the 50's when that was happening a huge portion of goods were made in the US.....it aint that now so "taxing the rich" now isnt gonna have the same effect, you just gonna push more jobs over seas where they can have a worker make the product for $10 a day instead of $10 an hour......push comes to shove the rich, companies hell you and me just care about their profit margines....how can i make the most off this product, how can i make the most money with the least amount of work, how can i get the best benefits.....wanna change stuff? make it in the businesses best interest for their bottom line to hire Americans and not Chinese....you add jobs, you add tax base cause ppl have jobs, you create a bigger demand for products cause ppl have jobs and can buy them.....that makes sense.....taxing someone all to hell just cause they have the money doesnt, cause they will just say screw it and leave cause guess what? they have the money to do it....they leave, set up shop in China and just pay whatever taxes there are to sell the goods in this country and continue making themselves rich living in Hong Kong or Macao....

What kind of a time frame are we talking here in terms of effectiveness and positive change? It's a great idea, but how do you think China would react to drastic trade protectionism at this point? We owe them billions and billions of dollars and we use debt funded by China every year just to keep this country running. I like your idea, but given the current financial situation we are in we cannot afford such a drastic measure.

given our current situation i cant see how we cant.....continue sending more jobs to China aint gonna get us farther ahead, just gonna keep digging the hole deeper....dont care if they like it, tax the hell out of their goods and pay them back with their own money......gonna take awhile for production in the US to get going 3-5 years atleast......even adding a decent import tax there arent any TV's made in the US so we are gonna have to get them from somewhere till manufacturing here meets the demand.....if they dont like it, tough, its what we need to do as a country to survive.....

if you dont do something along these lines soon something drastic is going to happen cause those of us up here in Montana aint gonna be happy bout having to foot the bill for the IOU's California decided to pay some of its bills with this year....we run a balanced budget up here and cut funding when we dont have the money, not pay with IOU's and keep going like nothing is wrong....we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves up here.....suggest others start doing the same....
 
  • #65
There should be a "Movie Star" Tax... it's obscene how they live. And what do they really do to earn it?
Same goes for Manufactured-Pop music stars.

If all the spots weren't taken up by so few, they'd be more opportunities for more people out there.

I mean, comon... do we really need to hear another Madonna song? You're old, give it up... you always sucked anyway.
Do we really need to see another movie with Angelena Jolie? You've made enough money, step aside and give the reins to Megan Fox, she's younger & hotter anyway and you'll have more time adopting more kids to lavish over instead of helping the villages they're from.

"Recording Artists" have the restaurants, perfumes, clothing lines, etc, etc, etc... they soak up all the opportunities and that leaves less possibilities for the "rest of us" because they have to have everything and to be "number 1"

The bigger the trees, the more they choke out everything else. It's only when a forest fire happens when any new growth has any chance... and with the economy crashing, that's what should be happening but it's not.
 
  • #66
Capslock.....your missing a major point....in the 50's when that was happening a huge portion of goods were made in the US.....it aint that now so "taxing the rich" now isnt gonna have the same effect, you just gonna push more jobs over seas where they can have a worker make the product for $10 a day instead of $10 an hour......push comes to shove the rich, companies hell you and me just care about their profit margines....how can i make the most off this product, how can i make the most money with the least amount of work, how can i get the best benefits.....wanna change stuff? make it in the businesses best interest for their bottom line to hire Americans and not Chinese....you add jobs, you add tax base cause ppl have jobs, you create a bigger demand for products cause ppl have jobs and can buy them.....that makes sense.....taxing someone all to hell just cause they have the money doesnt, cause they will just say screw it and leave cause guess what? they have the money to do it....they leave, set up shop in China and just pay whatever taxes there are to sell the goods in this country and continue making themselves rich living in Hong Kong or Macao....



given our current situation i cant see how we cant.....continue sending more jobs to China aint gonna get us farther ahead, just gonna keep digging the hole deeper....dont care if they like it, tax the hell out of their goods and pay them back with their own money......gonna take awhile for production in the US to get going 3-5 years atleast......even adding a decent import tax there arent any TV's made in the US so we are gonna have to get them from somewhere till manufacturing here meets the demand.....if they dont like it, tough, its what we need to do as a country to survive.....

if you dont do something along these lines soon something drastic is going to happen cause those of us up here in Montana aint gonna be happy bout having to foot the bill for the IOU's California decided to pay some of its bills with this year....we run a balanced budget up here and cut funding when we dont have the money, not pay with IOU's and keep going like nothing is wrong....we are more than capable of taking care of ourselves up here.....suggest others start doing the same....

It is good to hear that other states are taking care of business the right way. Texas has been exceptional in weathering this whole financial storm. Out of all of the major cities in the country Dallas, Houston and San Antonio are as safe as you can get right now. And I agree with you... I don't like the idea of having to pay for the mistakes of other states either.

I like your idea better if it is a phased approach with the understanding that if China becomes hostile and starts collecting, we back off a bit. I still think it is too much of a kick in the lower regions to slap a sudden, comprehensive tax on most imports.

Phil

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

There should be a "Movie Star" Tax... it's obscene how they live. And what do they really do to earn it?
Same goes for Manufactured-Pop music stars.

If all the spots weren't taken up by so few, they'd be more opportunities for more people out there.

I mean, comon... do we really need to hear another Madonna song? You're old, give it up... you always sucked anyway.
Do we really need to see another movie with Angelena Jolie? You've made enough money, step aside and give the reins to Megan Fox, she's younger & hotter anyway and you'll have more time adopting more kids to lavish over instead of helping the villages they're from.

"Recording Artists" have the restaurants, perfumes, clothing lines, etc, etc, etc... they soak up all the opportunities and that leaves less possibilities for the "rest of us" because they have to have everything and to be "number 1"

The bigger the trees, the more they choke out everything else. It's only when a forest fire happens when any new growth has any chance... and with the economy crashing, that's what should be happening but it's not.

I love it!
 
  • #67
Its seems to me that most people in favor of "taxing the rich" do not consider themselves personally in the "rich" catagory, and therefore are excempt from their own decree..

but who sets the "line" between "rich" and "not rich"?

perhaps "taxing the rich" was another factor in Mass..after all, Mass democrats are among the richest democrats..When liberals in Washington say "tax the rich" they were talking about many in their own party..

Thats communism..that mindset has to be stopped..and the Mass election was a small step in the right direction.

Scot

Scot you really can't talk about MA politics as you have yet to answer ANY questions about the political climate currently within the state of Massachusetts. Have you lived in the state of Massachusetts for the last 10 or more years to fully understand what was important to voters? Stop creating these wild assumptions about what went through every voter's heads before heading to the polls. You continually answer my questions about politics in MA which you know absolutely nothing about with "MA democrats turn on their own party in favor of republican ideals". You continue to ignorantly over look all the other factors influencing how and why Brown won. Go back and read what Nepenthusiast and other logical forum members who don't live in MA have said about why people didn't vote for or support coakley.

Didn't the Bush Administration further define rich from not rich with their tax cut and welfare polices? Not everyone earned enough money to get a rebate check or tax break... Capitalism, higher education, stocks, inheritance, job prestige.... define who can afford a Yacht, Ferrari, House on the vinyard, etc. The HAVES can afford all that, the HAVE NOT's can not. In capitalism which the US needs to survive, there are always wealthy and poor, the government defines who's who based on income and living well above or being in debt + many other factors.

Average income per house hold in my town (2008) was 145,968 as opposed to the MA average income 65,401. You work out the tax numbers there, but my town went to coakley...you tell me, was taxing the rich a factor in this town? How about you answer the question without saying MA liberals have turned on their party!

I didn't realize the USA was a communist state now that republicans aren't leading us. I paid taxes during Bush's presidency. Seriously how is the DOW Jones, current capitalism models, and senatorial elections communist in any sort of way?
 
  • #68
There should be a "Movie Star" Tax... it's obscene how they live. And what do they really do to earn it?
Same goes for Manufactured-Pop music stars.

that is the most idiotic thing i have heard today......you think you should tax them cause ppl CHOOSE to give them money? the only way they get rich is cause ppl pay to see their movies or buy their records.....no one is being forced at gun point to hand over their $20.....hell i find them to be more honest in their careers than those in DC.......DC finds ways to steal your money......all movie stars do is take the money you freely give them of your own free will.....

i hate the politics of most celebrities.....most of them are so far from being grounded in reality it aint funny......however how they get their money is pretty honorable all things considered.....
 
  • #69
Kind of a joke to get a point across... you should really lighten up fella

The point being is that all the opportunities get swallowed up by a few, in much more than just the entertainment buisiness.

And you can't say "you" give them "your" money when speaking to me as I do not listen to Pop music, watch Blockbuster films or even TV... I think all that stuff is flismy fluff.
(except Pixar films, I enjoy them thoroughly)
 
  • #70
"you" and "your" in the case of the majority of these types of discussions refers to the general public and not necessarily the individual......

the fact of the matter is there is always gonna have to be someone to scrub tolets and that poerson aint gonna make $100,000 a year.....life sucks, life aint fair, if you dont like your lot in life do something to change it.....will it always work? no, ofcourse not......but complaining and demanding money be taken from someone else and giving it to you just because they have more than you do is not to far from stealing.....hell i think its worse than stealing cause you dont have enough courage to do it yourself....you elected a thug to do it for you....
 
  • #71
there is a third option jim......cut spending which is what we have to do at home and truthfully makes the most sense.....you can also cut taxes and encourage growth......with what we pay in taxes i could hire two more ppl.....had to lay someone off recently cause money was tight.....cut my taxes in half and i could have kept them employed......

Cutting spending is a good long-term goal, but quitting public services cold turkey disrupts the ability for the most vulnerable people to support themselves - even if they are only able to partially support themselves to begin with. If you were to refit the foundation of your house, would you start by demolishing the old one? Of course not; your house would collapse with nothing beneath it. Likewise, our economic viability rests on a large mass of low-paid workers in relatively fragile financial situations. Wealth and well being trickle up in America - when you hurt the poor people, everybody else will feel it as employers lose man-hours and supervisors and other skilled laborers have to fill in to do unskilled tasks.
There's a big difference between you balancing and tightening your home budget and balancing state or federal spending. If I recall correctly, you have two people to administrate your finances (yourself and your wife) and seven or eight total consumers in your household (three daughters and three dogs, right?) If 25% of the US population was employed to work our finances, and the overhead from communication and logistics were nearly zero the way it is in your household, we'd certainly have a much more agile system. But can you imagine the kind of planning that would entail? These things don't scale in a linear way - as a matter of fact, problems like this are at the cutting edge of information science today, and as far as we can tell, there is no neat-and-tidy solution to managing systems as big as our nation. The best we can do is make gradual adjustments and analyze the results carefully.
Yes, if you receive a tax cut, you can hire another worker. But how many subsidized businesses lose out on their assistance so that you can do that? (And yes, despite conservative rhetoric, much of the US is subsidized, socialized and has been for a very long time - look at the finance sector, or state or federal lobbies.) How many public programs lose funding and put people on the street. I agree with you that people shouldn't be living on handouts when they can otherwise support themselves - but you're not going to be able to change the fact that there will always be a group of people that take advantage. Some of them are on SSI - others are embezzling money from their company or the government entity they work with - there are those that ransack suburban homes and others that run Ponzi schemes. At least we have records about who collects SSI and under what pretenses.

he put in the time and the risk to build up his company, i didnt.....im all for charging the hell out of the tax evaders.....aint for taxing someone more just on the simple fact they are rich....

I don't think this necessarily follows. Would you also say that Ma Bell, or the railroad barons of the 19th century, got where they were through sheer hard work? It's too often the case that the biggest moneymakers got where they were through dishonesty and double-dealing. And, once they're on top, they tend to get worse, trampling over little guys for the sake of ever-increasing profits. Power corrupts.
~Joe
 
  • #72
a monopoly is a different situation....im for competition......but it needs to be fair competition a manufacturer in the US paying his workers $10 an hour plus a few benefits cant compete with someone working on $10 a day in China.....tax the imports and level the playing field or dont complain that there are no US jobs.....

as for cutting, the Feds could easily cut billions in funding various things and not even hit the welfare type stuff.....all kinds of stuff they can start cutting, like the health care for life and over padded retirement for senators and representatives.....the vast majority of the ATF can be severely gutted....TSA has been a huge waste of money, rather see those jobs being done by a private contractor that you can hold accountable if they screw up anyway.....i could do a whole lot of cutting and only cause guberment employees to loose their job and have to find something else to do for work....
 
  • #73
"you" and "your" in the case of the majority of these types of discussions refers to the general public and not necessarily the individual......

the fact of the matter is there is always gonna have to be someone to scrub tolets and that poerson aint gonna make $100,000 a year.....life sucks, life aint fair, if you dont like your lot in life do something to change it.....will it always work? no, ofcourse not......but complaining and demanding money be taken from someone else and giving it to you just because they have more than you do is not to far from stealing.....hell i think its worse than stealing cause you dont have enough courage to do it yourself....you elected a thug to do it for you....

Personally, I'm not looking for a handout.. I'd just rather they tax the hell outta some celebutard than me.
 
  • #74
I tend to agree with CAPSLOCK on the issue of taxing the ultra-rich a slightly higher rate. Me, a self proclaimed conservative. Which brings me back to an original point I was trying to make earlier.

I doubt anyone here sees completely eye to eye with either the Republican or Democratic view on all issues. Yet, we are forced to pick a side based on what we hold near and dear to our hearts at the time of the election.

The people elected Obama because he offered hope and change. But that is not a go ahead to implement all of his liberal ideals upon America. We agreed on hope and change, but on our terms. The people's terms, not the republicans, not the democrats, not the lobbyists, etc. The peoples. Listen to our thoughts on every issue. Hear us, then do it!
 
  • #75
if that was what you were after you went about it wrong.....shouldnt have voted McCain or Obama.......there were much better candidates than either of those.....Obama aint gonna give yah change, least not the change you want....nothing in his history said he would.....actions mean more than words....anyone can tell yah anything.....you look at their actions to see if they are telling yah the truth....Obamas past actions suggested the "hope and change" he was promising was a load of bull just like most every other major politician......i didnt agree with the majority of what McCain said, however what he told yah could be backed up by his past practice, even if yah didnt agree with him what he was telling yah was likely the truth....
 
  • #76
Hey Rattler,
One thing a lot of people don't understand is that China is incredibly protectionist. They cannot complain if we tax their goods coming in - they do the same thing! I'm all for protecting American workers from having to compete with basically slave labor. The "free trade" people are generally the folks who benefit from importing cheap Chinese crap.

As far as Obama goes, give it some time - he's already introduced a lot of new financial regulations to protect the economy with many more on the way. And he's been thwarted from implementing true changes elsewhere by corporate interests and the GOP (as well as the Blue Dogs). He's trying - nobody else seems to be. I expect the MA election to be a wakeup call to him to stop trying to compromise everything with people who do not have good intentions. First step happened already today in announcing a lot of very important new rules for the "too big to fail" bankers to keep them from taking ridiculous risks.

Finally, we should cut spending - on Defense. But why elsewhere? We need better schools and roads and services, and we're easily rich enough to have them. And they're cheap compared to bombers nobody wants or needs. We need to CHANGE spending, not just blindly increase or decrease it. We should aim high though and be ambitious. We are a very capable nation.
 
  • #77
might change how we spend defense funding........dont think there is any point in us being in Afghanistan, its a tribal society that aint gonna change.....should flattened Iraq in the 90's when they invaded Kuwait......but we listened to NATO and the like and backed off.....but the bombers and like are handy to have around....some of the biggest aid after the tsunami in the southeast Asia our aircraft carriers provided some of the best help, they were mobile cities that provided their own power and had their own water purification systems aswell as fully contained trauma hospitals.....most of our bombers are also what are used to load up and haul aid to places like Haiti......those bombers have plenty of uses besides protection.....

as i said ive got a laundry list of places i would cut before i even hit welfare or roads......though alot of roads should prolly be paid for locally if ppl want them......got alot of miles around here that while its nice they are paved they dont need to be, got around fine without them being paved 10 years ago....run more toll roads and the like to pay for it, if you use it, pay for it......schools should also be handled more locally, federal mandates due to 'No Child Left Behind' has cost our lil district hundreds of thousands of dollars that could have been used for education, instead is spent on administration....would have been better off using it for our programs.....sure it brought a few schools up to better standards but its also hurting those that were doing fine before my school district didnt need more federal intervention, infact we were well ahead of the curve in fixing things before NCLB hind was a glimmer in Bush's eye, now instead of spending money on math programs we are spending it on two administrators that spend their entire time making sure we meet NCLB standards, in a district of less than a thousand students....you aint happy bout your schools get on the damn school board and change it, dont ask the feds to do it.....
 
  • #78
From what I have read, the companies who take care of their employees (and customers), having a family-oriented business, continue on in the long run. The ones that don't, make lots of money in the short run and then tend to go under or suffer from the corruption of the greedy head honchos. You need not look any further than the bailouts we have experienced.
 
  • #79
Hey Rattler,
One thing a lot of people don't understand is that China is incredibly protectionist. They cannot complain if we tax their goods coming in - they do the same thing! I'm all for protecting American workers from having to compete with basically slave labor. The "free trade" people are generally the folks who benefit from importing cheap Chinese crap.

As far as Obama goes, give it some time - he's already introduced a lot of new financial regulations to protect the economy with many more on the way. And he's been thwarted from implementing true changes elsewhere by corporate interests and the GOP (as well as the Blue Dogs). He's trying - nobody else seems to be. I expect the MA election to be a wakeup call to him to stop trying to compromise everything with people who do not have good intentions. First step happened already today in announcing a lot of very important new rules for the "too big to fail" bankers to keep them from taking ridiculous risks.

Finally, we should cut spending - on Defense. But why elsewhere? We need better schools and roads and services, and we're easily rich enough to have them. And they're cheap compared to bombers nobody wants or needs. We need to CHANGE spending, not just blindly increase or decrease it. We should aim high though and be ambitious. We are a very capable nation.

Capslock, they actually can complain, and they have. We are in the early stages of a trade war with them based on a tariff we imposed for importing tires from China. They fired back with a random probe into US autoparts:

http://money.cnn.com/2009/09/14/markets/thebuzz/index.htm

Many economists think this is the last thing we need at this point, which is why I stated my difference in opinion with Rattler's proposal to severly tax imports from China. We are just now starting to pick ourselves up, and getting into a trade war would knock us right back down.

Like it or not we are now truly in a global economy and have a nice tanker load of debt with the very nation some propose to tax. I don't think they would buy into the claim that they can't take measures to hurt us in return for slapping drastic taxes on them.

Phil
 
  • #80
This man is obviously biased towards his parties views. But I found this vid to be relative to this topic and to the point that the people's voices and concerns are not being heard. Only a single parties.

http://media.causes.com/525864?p_id=67198577
 
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