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the death of Christianity

  • #61
The reason "Christians" or any other group of followers of organized religion care what you do and how the government is run is because they are trying to control you. Just as the author of this article is warning of the "godless" trying to control peoples mind he is calling for "Christians" to force their ways on others. Oraganized relgion is mind control. Organized religions cause atrophy of the mind. Their goal is to make you one more goose stepping solider in their army of mental (and physical) conquest.

Though in the end this is all irrelivent as Muhammad was the last prophet of God.

Control? You mean like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6596933.stm

Or treating women as second-class human beings?

Or teaching elementary school children that Jewish people are pigs that should be slaughtered?

Compare any Islamic country to the U.S. and lets talk about control and crusades.
 
  • #62
And yes, we have *directly* observed evolution, including the origin of a new species from existing species.

Honestly, I've been watching the whole creationism thing for decades, and they have not only failed to come up with any convincing argument or real data, but even worse are just recycling the same tired and disproved tropes they used 150 years ago.

And, while I'm coming at things from a scientific perspective, don't think I wouldn't call BS if I saw it - I'm about to lay some serious smackdown on the entire field of primate locomotion because of flaws in some of the original papers. Puncturing existing theories is a great way to make a name in science, and it's a very competitive field. Do you seriously think that if there was some big secret, nobody would have tried to make their name by blowing the cover? If you do, you *clearly* have no idea how little cash a post-doc makes compared to faculty.

Seriously, creationism is an embarrassment to religion. It's crappy theology supported by made-up stories.

Mokele

I agree the whole evolution/creation battle is ridiculous but that is due to some people who want to over extend what evolution is. Sure things evolve on Earth, that's how life survives as it changes, but that's not what MOST darwin fans believe. They take this notion and make far fetched claims that life on Earth was created by random evolution of the universe, from a small one celled living thing in the ocean billions of years ago and then somehow created all the kinds of life we have now. To sum up you could say they try to replace God with this idea, which is just bad science and teaching.
 
  • #63
Logic? Come on now Zappa, don't tell me that you see perfect logic out of an invisible being that created everything from nothing at all, and for the icing, has no beginning and no end? Please don't tell me that is logical because if it is, I'd like to hear the logic behind that.

Religion doesn't have to be logical but for the love of God people, think for yourself, don't just do something because you learned in Sunday school that you are supposed to.

God is actually a lot bigger than most people think, really. That is why our logic and reasoning will never come close to unraveling the mysteries of God. If you accept God for who He is, how can you possibly think you can know or understand everything He does?

Just like any body of text, the Bible should be read closely. It does not always literally mean word for word what is says. Sometimes there's deeper meanings, alternative wordage (the english language simplifies a lot of Greek/Hebrew words that could uncover more meanings), or cultural background/traditions that you need to understand for a verse to make sense.
 
  • #64
My God has always loved me in a way that defies logic. He doesn't fit in my logic-box. Girls don't fit in my logic-box either. There's something about human nature that allows us to go above and beyond the natural way of things. What's life without the jokes we tell and the wars we start? Granted it's healthy to come to understand the reasons behind the seasons, but most of us don't know enough about ourselves to start denying what we can't explain.

Peter
 
  • #65
They take this notion and make far fetched claims that life on Earth was created by random evolution of the universe, from a small one celled living thing in the ocean billions of years ago and then somehow created all the kinds of life we have now.
Why is it so far fetched to think that through survival of the fittest over billions of years(think about that, thats a long time and more generations of organisms you could ever count) could lead to as many competing organisms as there are now and its not far fetched to think some magical infinite being said "Lets make a bunch of different animals out of dust" and *ZAP* there they were?

If you would, please take a look at how similar embryos of completely different animals look. Was God being lazy? Surely he wouldn't give a human embryo a tail when we never in existance had one?

http://www.plyojump.com/courses/biology/images/embryos.jpg

Theres your evidence, of course you can always attribute it to this divine force's plan, how could anyone lose a debate when they can say "Infinite being who created the universe"? ;)

Now that I have most of the book of genesis out of the way, you could always say "Genesis wasn't meant to be taken literally, it was all a metaphor". Come on, man. :p
 
  • #66
Why is it so far fetched to think that through survival of the fittest over billions of years(think about that, thats a long time and more generations of organisms you could ever count) could lead to as many competing organisms as there are now and its not far fetched to think some magical infinite being said "Lets make a bunch of different animals out of dust" and *ZAP* there they were?

If you would, please take a look at how similar embryos of completely different animals look. Was God being lazy? Surely he wouldn't give a human embryo a tail when we never in existance had one?

http://www.plyojump.com/courses/biology/images/embryos.jpg

Theres your evidence, of course you can always attribute it to this divine force's plan, how could anyone lose a debate when they can say "Infinite being who created the universe"? ;)

Now that I have most of the book of genesis out of the way, you could always say "Genesis wasn't meant to be taken literally, it was all a metaphor". Come on, man. :p

And all life on Earth is comprised of cells....so what? Why would God create each individual species alien to one another, so alien that they didn't share ANY of the same building blocks? Does that make sense? It's not hard to understand why your theory is far fetched. Just take a look outside and all around you. You honestly believe everything you see is a result of billions of years of evolution from one originator cell (which somehow just appeared right?).
 
  • #67
Though in the end this is all irrelivent as Muhammad was the last prophet of God.
What is that supposed to mean?
 
  • #68
Just take a look outside and all around you. You honestly believe everything you see is a result of billions of years of evolution from one originator cell (which somehow just appeared right?).



That cell didn't just appear. That first cell was made from organic molecules, proteins, lipids. Life came from the building block of life. You can't just have a house, you have to have the bricks come together first. I am floored that you are scoffing at that theory when you say "Which somehow just appears right?" When you yourself belief that God created everything directly! I can not believe that you call a logical theory far fetched yet God poofing everything into existence makes perfect sense.

If a Christian doesn't think that God can make everything through evolution, maybe they are the ones who are really limiting themselves.

About Genesis being a metaphor, hell yes! The whole Bible is practically a metaphor and storied of IGNORANT people trying to explain nature the best they could at the time they were in. These people didn't know JACK SQUAT so the easiest thing to do is to say "Well God did it that way". Look at the sun, earth and moon.. We KNOW how they were made, what they are doing right now and how they will go out. They didn't know this back then, so "God made the heavens and the earth" was the best they could do. Does this mean god poofed them there? NO! It's the same deal with evolution.

Sometimes I think these creationists are really just plugging their ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALALA!"
 
  • #70
Control? You mean like this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/6596933.stm

Or treating women as second-class human beings?

Or teaching elementary school children that Jewish people are pigs that should be slaughtered?

Compare any Islamic country to the U.S. and lets talk about control and crusades.


You are giving examples of political control not religious control. The government is hijacking religion to control its people. When I spoke of control three things come to mind right away, Jihad, Zionism, and the Crusades. (one example from all 3 religions of Abraham) As I never claimed any religion was innocent of controling their followers. Tithing also comes to mind. These religions essentially infect you with a "virus" and then take control. They take your money, want you to give up your life in the name of god, often times do horrible things to non-believers and then they use you to spread the beliefs. Everytime you open your mouth and talk about them like a TB patient with a bad cough you spread the "virus". Although not everyone you come in contact with will be infected some will and then they will spread the religion also. *The comparison of a virus and religion is not to be taken literally I just could not think of a better way of putting it.

As for treatment of women have you read the bible? Gensis 3:16 "Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you" 1 Timothy 12:.."I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man(a "man" a child is ok); she must be silent" Really makes those women first class human-beings doesnt it, unelss they want to say something or talking in church then they dont matter.

As for teaching school children that jews should be slaughted you need to have your translation checked as this would only be directed at Israelis as almost every Islamic country I am aware of has a small Jewish and Christian minority that they havent slaughted like pigs.

As for comparing the U.S. to Islamic contries first this would be political control not religious. Second, the US is secular so no matter what theocracy you compare it to your going to see more freedom of thought in the US as it allows many differnt religions to control a small part of its population and does not force anyone to follow an archaic set of laws.
 
  • #71
I guess religion is like sickle cell anemia. It could be good or bad depending on the person. Or it could be like a gun and dangerous in the wrong hands.

I get sick of the overly religious. I get sick of the conservatives. It's too bad we can have a liberal country and a conservative country and all of the dems could more to the former and all of the republicans can move to the later. Sooner or later I have a feeling the conservatives would attack the liberals though.
 
  • #72
Sooner or later I have a feeling the conservatives would attack the liberals though.

And I don't see what is so wrong with moderates (politics or religion), either. It's like they are attacked (like Rudy G.) for being moderate in political debates. I remember when Bush was trying to talk smack about Kerry for being (in a disgusted voice) a liberal alongside Ted Kennedy.

xvart.
 
  • #73
I guess religion is like sickle cell anemia. It could be good or bad depending on the person. Or it could be like a gun and dangerous in the wrong hands.

I get sick of the overly religious. I get sick of the conservatives. It's too bad we can have a liberal country and a conservative country and all of the dems could more to the former and all of the republicans can move to the later. Sooner or later I have a feeling the conservatives would attack the liberals though.

The conservatives would only attack because the liberals would "have" weapons of mass destruction. This would be because of national security of course. LOL
 
  • #74
The conservatives would attack before our clouds of pot smoke and oceans of bong water corrupted their God fearing children. Acid rain would be a good thing in Liberal Land Just imagine a whole country full of liberals. Abortions and orgies in the streets everyday at noon. Not in that order, naturally. We could all run around barefoot and listen to the Indigo Girls. This is what the conservatives are afraid of I think, and that's why waste their votes the way they do. The only difference is I believe that the conservatives would actually do the things the liberals are afraid they will. Well, what they haven't already done atleast. Like taking away our civil rights and instating seperate but "equal" civil unions. What a joke. It's not equality until the words are spelled the same way.

As for what's wrong with moderates, they aren't liberal enough!
 
  • #75
And all life on Earth is comprised of cells....so what? Why would God create each individual species alien to one another, so alien that they didn't share ANY of the same building blocks? Does that make sense? It's not hard to understand why your theory is far fetched. Just take a look outside and all around you. You honestly believe everything you see is a result of billions of years of evolution from one originator cell (which somehow just appeared right?).

Ok I couldn't help it, I'm back for round 2.

think of it like this: The beginning cell was a S. purpurea plant. Later on through it's life cycles there was a minor mutation that caused the cells (plants) to look a bit different or produce different products. First you have the mother cell (S. purpurea) that has had mutations due to it's environment or whatnot and is now different, and the daughet species of the cells are Cell2 (S. purpurea ssp purpurea) and Cell 3 (S. purpurea ssp. venosa).
imagine if that happened every 500-1000 years. And every new Species or cell type became steadily more different from the original mother cell, evern more different from other from a different original daughter cell (cell2 vs. cell3).

After that certain cells began to work together and colonize to create organisms or colonies such as Sponges.

and evolved in to simple worms and whatnot.

As for the begginning of life, well as JLAP said, there were collections of lipids, proteins, and carbohydrates that had an unknown dose of energy applied to it (in my opinion it was probably lightining) that sparked the collection of items to move and assoctiate with each other in a way that was self sustaining to the whole.
 
  • #76
The argument isn't about a plant evolving into subspecies. Most creationists believe in micro evolution. This is about a single celled organism evolving into a fish to salamander to lizard to groundhog to monkey to human. This is GROSSLY oversimplified but that's pretty much it in a nutshell that people get mad about.
 
  • #77
That cell didn't just appear. That first cell was made from organic molecules, proteins, lipids. Life came from the building block of life. You can't just have a house, you have to have the bricks come together first. I am floored that you are scoffing at that theory when you say "Which somehow just appears right?" When you yourself belief that God created everything directly! I can not believe that you call a logical theory far fetched yet God poofing everything into existence makes perfect sense.

If a Christian doesn't think that God can make everything through evolution, maybe they are the ones who are really limiting themselves.

Oh really...where did the "organic" molecules, proteins, lipids, and building blocks of life come from? Did they evolve from nothing?

Actually I think the people who are limiting themselves are the people who believe in a God who is so small and incapable of creating a human being and instead give credit to evolution.

About Genesis being a metaphor, hell yes! The whole Bible is practically a metaphor and storied of IGNORANT people trying to explain nature the best they could at the time they were in. These people didn't know JACK SQUAT so the easiest thing to do is to say "Well God did it that way". Look at the sun, earth and moon.. We KNOW how they were made, what they are doing right now and how they will go out. They didn't know this back then, so "God made the heavens and the earth" was the best they could do. Does this mean god poofed them there? NO! It's the same deal with evolution.

Wow this is saddening. You claim to believe in God but when God tells you what He did you call him IGNORANT and then again belittle Him....

Sometimes I think these creationists are really just plugging their ears and going "LALALALALALALALALALALA!"

Maybe if Darwinists would actually preach good science they would get more respect.
 
  • #78
No, they came together from hydrocarbon containing compounds :) A hydrocarbon is made primarily from, you guessed it, hydrogen and carbon. Impure hydrocarbons can be bonded to sulfur, nitrogen, etc. I do believe God made all of us. BUT I believe it took millions of years through evolution, not 24 hours. Why do you put "organic" in quotes? A molecule that contains carbon is organic. God making everything via evolution is a theory called theistic evolution.


I don't believe I said God was ignorant? I'd love for you to show me exactly where I called God Ignorant. If believe I was talking about and specified people thousands of years ago. God never told us anything. The Bible did. It was inspired by God, written by fallible man. If we should do what God tell us to do and think, according to the bible of course, we would stone our children for disrespecting their parents, kill people for picking up sticks on the sabbath, etc. Come to think of it, everyone who does light work on Saturday should die.


People do respect darwinism, what people? Pretty much the modern scientific community. Jeez, maybe that's why it's in every textbook in ever secular school in America? Maybe not the Messiah College.

Good science like what? Show me a better example that makes more scientific sense than evolution. I said scientific sense, so anything involving any deities whatsoever is not credible.
 
  • #79
Oh really...where did the "organic" molecules, proteins, lipids, and building blocks of life come from? Did they evolve from nothing?

ok, so you're saying that God made all of those things, that they didn't just happen to be there, or are made up of simpler parts? Sure, we don't have any proof as to why or how electrons, protons, neutrons and atoms came to be, but I bet that God didn't make them.

and to you're question I reply with another question. Did God come into existance from nothing?
 
  • #80
You are giving examples of political control not religious control.

Where do you think this political control comes from? :poke:

Genesis 3:16 deals with the fall of Adam and Eve. If you want to talk about the gender roles then yes men are supposed to be the head of the household. That does not mean men are to treat them like animals like in some countries. Try reading Ephesians 5:22-33, it goes into great detail on the relationship between husbands and wives.

1 Timothy 12 does not exist. There are only 6 chapters in 1 Timothy.
 
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