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Terrorist attack

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sorry Alvin, wasnt aware that was cosidered swearing on here. infact my Canuk friends have a completly different meaning for it. to them it means get drunk and have fun.........anyways i appologize, it was an oversite on my part and wasnt directed towards anyone on the board, i dont think any on here belong to that extream set of beliefs.

Bruce, ill be the wacko, heck ive been called worse and its probably not all that far off, but im a fairly harmless one
smile_m_32.gif
 
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"did the planes on 9-11 have anything to do with the war in Iraq"

According to Bush and Cheney, no, they did not. 9/11 was caused by Al Qaeda, and Osama Bin Laden, who were nurtured in the bosom of our friends, the Saudi Arabians.

Remember..Our Gov't. gave lots of money and weapons to the Taliban(Osama) so they could "fight the Russians."

"these extreamists HATE western culture. go ahead and try to sympothize with them "

This is what kills me about some people from your side...if you disagree with the administration...you're a terrorist sympathiser!  I disagree with the administration.  I think they're liars!  I'm not a terrorist sympathiser! It's a cheap and specious argument used by some people whose only source of news is Fox, Drudge and NewsMax. Lots of Evangelical Christians hate western culture, too.  I work with a few of them. These particular ones, who are adherents to the "university bible fellowship" cult hate everything about our culture, and would like it to go back to the good old days as mentioned in the bible, wherein you could kill your neighbor for working on the sabbath.    

What the Islamist fundamentalists really want is our fannies off their holy land.  That is what they want.  Which would mean we get our military bases out of Saudi Arabia. This isn't going to happen. The only reason the Sauds still rule is because our government props them up, much like we did with the Shah of Iran. Mecca, the holiest of holies for muslims, is in Saudi Arabia.  

The people who are doing these horrible things are religious extremists.  I'd like to see ALL religious extremists, no matter what religion, be put on a big rocket and fired into outer space, to populate a whole planet of religious extremists who would then kill each other off.  Religious extremists are obviously the most dangerous people on the face of this earth at this time. And don't try to tell me it's just muslims...the IRA used to tear it up quite a bit in Great Britain until one day they made the mistake of bombing a market and killed 26 catholic women and children. Timothy McVeigh was a devout christian, blonde and blue eyed, and look at what he did!  

"BUT, nothing was ever directed at you personally. If you think I called you a sheep, then examine yourself, because I did not. Want to split more hairs, A h? "

Obviously, mon Frere.  BUT you did say, many times, that people who belong to political parties are sheep.  I belong to a political party. Ergo, according to your statement, I am a sheep.  This is not parsing. I know what "is" is. This is you NOT saying something like..."some" people who are in political parties are sheep. Or "most" people in political parties are sheep.  It's called generalising, which is one step above stereo-typing, and both are silly and dangerous to do.

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!

Now please take a nap, because it sounds like you may be tired, what with all that yawning.  April Bin Laden
 
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who said i was agreeing with the administration? i have my reservations about the Iraq war. main one is we should have gone in sooner, well before Bush number 2 was elected. i am not a real Bush fan. the Patriot act alone torqued me off more than you will ever know. Bush is quite anti-gun, i am EXTREAMLY pro gun. i do not blindly follow the administration. i am praying that someone good will step up at the next election, the last election was a joke. you had to vote for the lesser of to evils and that was it. neither was very good, in my opinion Bush was FAAAAAAR better than that sniviling coward Kerry. how the democrats could even put him up for office is beyond me. when the primarys started they had a couple of decent candidates and they picked Kerry? they slit their own throats on that one. had they had a strong candidate(Kerry was the weakest of the bunch) they wold have defeated Bush quite easily.

To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.~~Theodore Roosevelt (1858 - 1919)
 
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<<these extreamists HATE western culture. go ahead and try to sympothize with them but in the end they hate you and will kill you if given the chance.>>

Well, this seems to me like you are implying that I'm a terrorist sympathiser. Next you'll be trying to tell me that "they hate our freedom."
 
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"Posterity! You will never know how much it cost the present generation to preserve your freedom. I hope you will make good use of it."
-John Quincy Adams
 

Clint

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it's all pointless anyway. what's the point? why do they want to die so badly? they will all die anyway sooner or later and yes they will be commiting suicide in the name of Allah ( is it ah-lah, or alla?) but they will miss out on life.


i think that to live is to sleep and to die is to awaken, so when you commit suicide you die in your sleep.
 

Clint

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yes yes but you'll see that in the new testiment that things turned around completely for judaism (christianity) hasn't anyone notices that in the old testiment "God" seemed like he wanted to kill everyone (and did?) stone him! stone her! he destroyed alot of cities and there were many wars, however, in the New Testiment it seems as if he's all nice and everything and has more of a "live and let live" attitude even if he completely disagreed with other people. it's very, very odd. Unfortunately, the Koran doesn't work like that and it seems as if Allah is an "old testiment" "God".

This raises even further questions. why do Jews have a New testiment attidude these days? why do Christians not go around killing people and stoning people? because it's not socially acceptable. On the otherhand, barbaric practices such as killing (murder) is socially acceptable , nay, encouraged in predominately Muslim countries. they are very much isolated from the rest of the world, not because they don't have the opportunity, but because they don't want their culture to be tainted by outsiders.

it's really quite a culture paradox.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ] they will miss out on life.
what life? that's why many of them are extremists. They have no life. Their life is full of suffering and stuff. That's the point of them being religious zealots... to hope for a better "life" when they die
 
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"in my opinion Bush was FAAAAAAR better than that sniviling coward Kerry."

Yes. While Kerry was kickin it with the mad honeys and some cold T'sing Tao in Vietnam, Bush was bravely risking life and limb to protect the shoreline of Texas from those wily Viet Cong! When he bothered to show up to do so. Cheney was busy cracking the books, and getting yet another of his 5 student deferrments, because he "had other priorities".  LOL!~ Sorry, couldn't resist.

"I do believe these terrorists hate us and I do believe they will kill us if provided with an opportunity to do so."

Yes, they do. Yes they would. In a heartbeat. I hate them, too. They hate our mid-east policy. They don't hate our "freedom." They wouldn't hate our way of life if only we'd keep it to ourselves.  Think about it...Muslim men in Great Britain are as free as you and I. They are largely free of the constraints of Sharia law. In some sects, they are required to wear beards. They must pray 5 times a day.  Yet, young muslim men, born in GB, British citizens, who are free people in their society, who all came from wealthy families, are the ones doing these stupid bombings. So...what would be their complaint?  It's not a lack of freedom, certainly. Last I checked, England is a free and democratic society. They must be objecting to something else, then.  Perhaps it's England's involvement in the Iraq war? Western culture? The west's preferential treatment of Isreal? The presence of western military bases on their holy land? Brainwashing by radical clerics?  I'd put my money on any or all of those things, and not "they hate our freedom."  IMO.  I'm NOT defending them...part of defeating an enemy is trying to understand their motives, which is why I subject myself to Limbaugh and Hannity and NewsMax and Drudge every day.

"Hold your friends close, hold your enemies closer" Benjamin Franklin. Smart man, that Ben.

"Come to think of it, I’d feel relatively confident stating that France is already on their side but no great loss there."

Huh? How so? If it wasn't for France, our national anthem would be God Save the Queen. Not the Sex Pistols version, either. Though I wouldn't mind their version so much.  France was required to follow us over the cliff?  How stupid would that be?  

"Has anyone taken a close look at our public transportation system lately? Chicago, New York, and Los Angeles public transportation moves millions daily. How about our commercial airports?  Think Atlanta, Chicago, and Dallas."

Statistic I heard yesterday...the administration has spent $20 Billion dollars to keep you and your fingernail clippers off of commercial airlines. It has spent a measly $286 million to secure mass transit.  And they are going to cut that amount by a third, I believe. They are also spending a similar pittance to secure the ports. The terrorists are most likely not going to come at us with airplanes again. Too complicated.  I would imagine it would be much easier to waltz onto a commuter train at rush-hour....what has the government done to stop a person who wanted to do that?  

"On the otherhand, barbaric practices such as killing (murder) is socially acceptable, nay, encouraged in predominately Muslim countries."

I don't think so.  Where did you hear this? The reason crime rates are low in Muslim countries that follow strict Sharia law is that the Qur'an proscribes VERY harsh punishment for the most minor of crimes.  Steal something? Your hand is cut off! In public and in front of your family! Kill someone? Get stoned to death or beheaded or executed in the public soccer stadium(this still happens frequently in Saudi Arabia, BTW)!  And what is a "new testament attitude?" Can I get it from eating an Altoid? Just curious.  

The Qur'an states that if you kill one man...you have killed all men, and committed a grievous sin against Allah. The Qur'an also states that Jews and Christians are "people of the book" and are to be protected. It says nothing about going out and killing anybody except in defense of the religion. At the time the Qur'an was written, the muslim world was under heavy attack from other peoples in the area. These people were not Jews and/or christians. The term "infidel" (Kufir) SPECIFICALLY and only applies to a group of people who were attacking Mecca at the time, I believe.  

My point is this...anyone can pervert the teachings of their holy book.  It's been done all throughout human history. This is what the suicide bombers are doing.  What they are practicing is not true Islam.  What Christians practiced during the crusades, or the IRA bombings, or the OKC bombing is not true Christianity.  

imo.
 
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Well April, I'll be sure to thank the French that our national anthem is not "God Save The Queen" given they did send their navy over here after it appeared victory was ours.
 
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Actually, the French totally saved us from remaining a British colony for a long time.

They are also, as you mentioned, doing a great job in Afghanistan, you know..that silly little country that Osama Bin Laden has his base of operations in.

<<Perhaps the absence of support from that country in Iraq is a blessing in disguise for our troops?>>

Most likely! We have the best armed forces in the world. I'm glad we do. It's surely a blessing for the French economy. Paul Wolfowitz said this war would cost us $1 billion dollars, tops. We're now at $300 billion+, and I believe it goes up by $100 million a day. Think of all the stuff that that money could do here. oooops.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (aprilh @ July 27 2005,10:50)]I'm NOT defending them...part of defeating an enemy is trying to understand their motives, which is why I subject myself to Limbaugh and Hannity and NewsMax and Drudge every day.

"Hold your friends close, hold your enemies closer" Benjamin Franklin. Smart man, that Ben.
You can't solve a problem without accurately defining it first. I wish people who are content to caricature, dehumanize, and strawman the enemy could see just how much damage they're doing to their own cause.
 

Clint

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"I don't think so. Where did you hear this? The reason crime rates are low in Muslim countries that follow strict Sharia law is that the Qur'an proscribes VERY harsh punishment for the most minor of crimes. Steal something? Your hand is cut off! In public and in front of your family! Kill someone? Get stoned to death or beheaded or executed in the public soccer stadium(this still happens frequently in Saudi Arabia, BTW)"

you don't think that's barbaric?
 
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Of course it's barbaric!  Punishments meted out in holy books are ALWAYS brutal. They live in a theocracy, and that is how criminals are dealt with in their holy book, which is the foundation of their government.  

A good reason for the (hopefully)vast chasm between church and state in this country, isn't it?

Finch..no, we don't need that here.  Illinois has the death penalty. 17 men have been released from death row,(one of them within 48 hours of his execution), because DNA evidence proved them innocent. Outgoing governor George Ryan, a republican, commuted all death sentences to life in prison before he left office.  Google "the innocence project" if you're interested.

Laura, why this hatred for the french?  Just because they didn't follow us and GB over the cliff?  I'd call that some good thinking, IMO.
 
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