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Question on P. grandiflora

tommyr

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Hi folks. I got my first grandiflora over winter and it was great in spring but once the weather got too hot it stopped growing and made it's hibernacula. I noticed today that it also produced some gemmae as well. I'll keep the plant in the shade for now and in the fall give it fridge dormancy (it wouldn't survive my N.Y. winters). Should I leave the gemmae alone until winter or could I take them now and sow them? Any advice would be appreciated!

Tom
 

bluemax

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Speaking from experiences here in the Pacific northwest I'd suggest you separate the gemmae now. I find they tend to disappear if they remain near the parent plant for too long. As to your winters, I've seen this one survive temps into the 'teens F. so I would expect they can take it, depending on the original source of the plants. This species and Sarrcenia purpurea purp. are the most cold-proof carnivores that I grow.
 

tommyr

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Speaking from experiences here in the Pacific northwest I'd suggest you separate the gemmae now. I find they tend to disappear if they remain near the parent plant for too long. As to your winters, I've seen this one survive temps into the 'teens F. so I would expect they can take it, depending on the original source of the plants. This species and Sarrcenia purpurea purp. are the most cold-proof carnivores that I grow.

Thanks for replying. It can get to single digits here and we have many freeze / thaw cycles as well, do you think it would survive that? It's in a small 3" pot.
 
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Yes, it will survive a New York winter if it can survive winter in the Swiss Alps, but that's if planted in-ground as it would be found in the wild. No guarantees on a potted plant especially if left exposed (more due to the risk of desiccation than the cold).
I have found that if the plant is not given a cold dormancy period now, it may reawaken in a month or two for a shorter, weaker growing season and then not have a large enough hibernaculum to make flowers the next year, so I often just take them and stick them in the fridge when they do this in summer for a few months, let them grow out again as they do for a few months later in the year, and then when they go dormant again put them back into the cold until actual spring arrives again. It doubles the number of growing seasons (and also thus gemmae produced) and seems more likely to get them to maintain or increase size to the point they might actually flower. I do a similar thing for Drosera linearis.
 
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on this species the hibernacula begins to form in July, August. wait for the disappearance of all the leaves to detach the bulbils, in principle we do this rather , here, in autumn.
if the temperatures are not too cold you can leave them outside without problem, here at my house all my temperate stays outside all year round
especially not to restart during the winter, a good number of temperate ones.

in winter they are dormant in the form of hibernacula, for the most part it protects them from the cold.
 
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tommyr

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Yes, it will survive a New York winter if it can survive winter in the Swiss Alps, but that's if planted in-ground as it would be found in the wild. No guarantees on a potted plant especially if left exposed (more due to the risk of desiccation than the cold).
I have found that if the plant is not given a cold dormancy period now, it may reawaken in a month or two for a shorter, weaker growing season and then not have a large enough hibernaculum to make flowers the next year, so I often just take them and stick them in the fridge when they do this in summer for a few months, let them grow out again as they do for a few months later in the year, and then when they go dormant again put them back into the cold until actual spring arrives again. It doubles the number of growing seasons (and also thus gemmae produced) and seems more likely to get them to maintain or increase size to the point they might actually flower. I do a similar thing for Drosera linearis.

That's what I will do then, repot the main plant, sow the gemmae and pop them the fridge. Thanks for the help, this is my first grandiflora so I'd like to have it survive.

Tom
 
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for me the fridge is a bad solution, rather leave them outside.

here in europe in nature ( alpes, pyrenees, massif central , jura) they don't have a fridge and they are doing very well
 

tommyr

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for me the fridge is a bad solution, rather leave them outside.

here in europe in nature ( alpes, pyrenees, massif central , jura) they don't have a fridge and they are doing very well

I would love to just leave them outside but there is no way it would survive the winter here where I am. Especially in a pot. I lost all my sarracenia a few years ago because someone said I could leave them out. They were wrong, I lost over 2 dozen plants. Never again.
 
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you know in your country you have P. vulgaris also,that grows naturally without a fridge.

this specie grow here in the wild in europe with P.grandiflora subsp grandiflora without problem USDA 5;6;7

what is your USDA zone , 7,5 or 4 ?
mine is 7 and all my temperate ping stays outside all year round in pots or riprap
 
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tommyr

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you know in your country you have P. vulgaris also,that grows naturally without a fridge.

this specie grow here in the wild in europe with P.grandiflora subsp grandiflora without problem USDA 5;6;7

what is your USDA zone , 7,5 or 4 ?
mine is 7 and all my temperate ping stays outside all year round in pots or riprap

I'm in zone 6. If the sarracenia won't survive here (including my purpurea!) no way this plant will.
 
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Conditions that work for one individual are not guaranteed to work for another individual, Jeff. The fridge method is perfectly viable (if done correctly).
However, Tommy: nearly all Sarracenia can and will survive in Zone 6 outside year round, also if taken care of correctly. Potted plants either have to be in some sort of protective cold frame or buried in mulch to survive primarily the issues with cold desiccation, or be planted in a bog garden that's mulched over in winter to protect from extreme cold snaps. I'm in an area that straddles the borders of zones 4 and 5, and know someone nearby who has several outdoor bog gardens that do quite well, even with more southern species.
 

tommyr

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However, Tommy: nearly all Sarracenia can and will survive in Zone 6 outside year round, also if taken care of correctly. Potted plants either have to be in some sort of protective cold frame or buried in mulch to survive primarily the issues with cold desiccation, or be planted in a bog garden that's mulched over in winter to protect from extreme cold snaps. I'm in an area that straddles the borders of zones 4 and 5, and know someone nearby who has several outdoor bog gardens that do quite well, even with more southern species.

I fell for that once and won't fall for it again. Again, I lost all my sarracenia a few years ago. Never again.
 
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Fall for what? The truth? Not like we're here to set people up to fail with their plants, but ignoring known successful protocols for care in certain climates will.
 

tommyr

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Fall for what? The truth? Not like we're here to set people up to fail with their plants, but ignoring known successful protocols for care in certain climates will.

As I said before I already tried it once and lost all my sarrs. No need to get defensive, I wasn't accusing anyone of anything here.
 
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of course we can do everything including going to the fridge but zone 6 corresponds to their 'in situ' condition as well as zones 7 and 5.
why go looking for empirical methods?

there is surely an explanation for the fact that these sarracenias are dead

also surprised for S. purpurea, this sarracenia is one of the hardiest
they endures temperature at least as low as -25°c

TOMMYR what are your growing condition ? do you bring in your plants when it's very cold ?
 
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tommyr

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of course we can do everything including going to the fridge but zone 6 corresponds to their 'in situ' condition as well as zones 7 and 5.
why go looking for empirical methods?

there is surely an explanation for the fact that these sarracenias are dead

also surprised for S. purpurea, this sarracenia is one of the hardiest
they endures temperature at least as low as -25°c

TOMMYR what are your growing condition ? do you bring in your plants when it's very cold ?

Yes there is an explanation, it's too cold here and we get repeated freeze/thaw cycles in winter and it gets at times to near 0 F. By mid to late October my plants go into the fridge. I've been growing my VFTs that way for over 13 years now without a single loss. Yes purpurea can survive very cold temps but not in pots. Again, I lost all of mine and won't do it again.
I'm not going to argue, where I am you can't keep them outside. They die. Period.

Back to the main topic please.
 
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Not too cold, that's not the problem. I know people across NY that have plants outdoors year round, and here where I live it gets colder than that as well as with the freeze-thaw thing, still people with bog gardens. But if you want to claim otherwise then there isn't much other help we can offer for growing any temperate plant. P. grandiflora will grow alongside Sarracenia if somewhat shaded, so if what we recommend for one is refused, then for the other won't be any good to you either.
 

tommyr

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Not too cold, that's not the problem. I know people across NY that have plants outdoors year round, and here where I live it gets colder than that as well as with the freeze-thaw thing, still people with bog gardens. But if you want to claim otherwise then there isn't much other help we can offer for growing any temperate plant. P. grandiflora will grow alongside Sarracenia if somewhat shaded, so if what we recommend for one is refused, then for the other won't be any good to you either.

My plants are NOT IN A BOG, they are in pots. I'll stick with fridge dormancy, it works perfectly. Thanks.
 
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