Next step from Normal Fluorescents

[Meaven]

my sundews just aren't doing well. all my other plants are happy, but my dews always lose their color.

right now im using dual 48" fluorescent fixtures running 2 40 watt "natural sunlight" bulbs each.

whats the next step up from fluorescent? i dont want to move to metal halide quite yet, and theres gotta be something less extreme then that, right?

 

[Clint]

HO but not many people use those (except for T5's) then PC and VHO.

Or you could get 2 more NO's. You also don't mention how far away they are. They should be pretty close.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

<span style='color:darkorange'>My personal opinion:</span>"Natural Sunlight" and other special, high-priced fluorescent lamps, can sometimes be attractive, or interesting in other ways, but are a waste of $$ when it comes to plant growing.

How many lamps, how close together, how far from the plants, how many plants, what size plants, how long the lights are left on (day cycle) -- you have provided very little of this critical information. I grow all of mine under cheap (less than $1 each) cool white fluorescent lamps, 4 feet long, in dual lamp fixtures. All of my plants that I am able to position where I'd like them, in relation to the lamps, are very highly colored, depending on their natural propensity to do so. Of course, sometimes there isn't enough space to position all the plants in appropriate light levels, so I sometimes rotate them to different positions.

 

[Capslock]

Yep, I grow lots of dews under the same cheap lights Joseph uses, and they grow fantastically! Of course, they're just a couple-three inches under the lights. If you can't put them that close, consider Fluorex fixtures or t5 fluorescents.

Capslock

 

[joe002]

Meaven,

In addition to the other factors already mentioned, there's a wide difference between 48" 40 watt T-12 bulbs as far as light output (lumens) and color temperature. If you take a look here you can see the variety. Here's just a few:

1,360 - "Plant"
1,900 - "Plant and Aquarium"
1,720 - "Bright Daylight"
2,025 - "Daylight"
3,150 - "Cool White" ($2 a bulb)
3,050 - "Daylight"
3,400 - "Warm White"

From this short list you can see a tube that may be like Joseph's "Cool White" puts out more than twice the light of a "Plant" tube.

joe002

 

[Meaven]

my dews sit about 3-4 inches below the lights, with a 18-hour photoperiod.

i do use 2 "plant" bulbs. take them out, and replace with them cool white i have sitting around, i assume?

 

[shokuchuu]

Envirolites Compact Fluorescents all the way! Though I'm not sure they're available across the pond.

 

[joe002]

Quote[/b] (Meaven @ Jan. 05 2007,1:45)]i do use 2 "plant" bulbs.  take them out, and replace with them cool white i have sitting around, i assume?

Yeah, should be that simple.

As an experiment, you could temporarily just switch out one of your “plant” bulbs with one of your “cool white” bulbs. When you turn on your fixture you should see a noticeable difference between the light output between the bulbs - assuming the “plant” bulb is only 1/2 the output of your “cool white” bulb. If the two bulbs have different color temperatures then one bulb may look “blue” while the other may look “pink”.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

Here is a photo of Drosera adelae grown under cool-white fluorescent lighting, with no natural light at all.

 

[flytraplady5]

Joseph,
That is one wonderful looking D. adelae. Of course it would look good you probably grow it the same way that you grow your delicious looking Pings.
Lois

 

[Not a Number]

Barry Rice in his book and on the ICPS FAQs says he's found no difference in growth due to the color temperature of fluorescent lamps. He says you're just as well of buying cheaper cool or warm white tubes than the more expensive daylight or "plant" tubes. The only thing he recommends is that you buy "name brand" tubes as they last longer and have a more consistent brighter light output then house or generic brands.

Joseph's experience and opinion coincides with Barry Rice's.

Carnivorous Plant FAQ: Light

 

[Meaven]

hm, i was just trying too hard then. good to know. got a fan in my terrarium finally, too

 

[cp_produtos]

Quote[/b] ]1,360 - "Plant"
1,900 - "Plant and Aquarium"
1,720 - "Bright Daylight"
2,025 - "Daylight"
3,150 - "Cool White" ($2 a bulb)
3,050 - "Daylight"
3,400 - "Warm White"

From this short list you can see a tube that may be like Joseph's "Cool White" puts out more than twice the light of a "Plant" tube.

the only problem with your analisis is that the plants will use a lot more of the light that the "plant" tube emits than from the light the "Cool white" emits, those values in lumens are measure from the point of view of the sensitivity of the human eye , not the point of view of the plants , the value that have importance to plants is PAR = Photosynthetically Active Radiation , and that don't show up in the lamp caracteristics. This is because the spectrum that the plant use, don't correspond to the point of maximum sensitivity of the human eye.

 

[joe002]

cp_produtos – yeah, I understand that plants don’t “use” light in the same way we “see” the light, and all things being equal (price, output, availability, etc.) a true “plant” light should be better. As is often the case they’re not equal in every category.

At the link I posted, the 1,360 lumen “Plant” bulb did not identify a PAR value – or even the Color Temperature. Is the bulb designed to promote flowering, growth, or profit – hard to tell. I don’t know that a 1,360 lumen “Plant” bulb it is better for our CPs than the 3,510 lumen “Cool White” bulb – especially given the results of Joseph and others using basic “Cool White” lamps.

 

[chloroplast]

For the past three years, I've grown almost all of my CPs under cool white fluorescent lights. They were 3-9" under 160W (4 48" tubes, 3100 lumens each, 4100K) on a 15h photoperiod. For the most part, they've all done fine.

That said, I just switched (as of a week ago) to fluorescent "daylight" bulbs (GE 40W, 3050 lumens, 6500K). As you can see, They put out just as many lumens as a cool white fluorescent tube but they have a better K. I got them on sale for not much more than the cool white tubes would cost. All other lighting parameters are as before. We'll see how they do.

Be careful basing your decision on lumens: it is simply a measure of how much visible light it produces (to the human eye). It tells you little about how much light is actually efficiently useable for photosynthesis. Another almost useless parameter is CRI which is a measure of how close to its "true" color (color under natural sunlight) an object's color is under the light, based again on what it looks like to the human eye.

PAR and, even better, PUR are better parameters to look at for the purposes of picking a bulb for your plants. Unfortunately, this information does not come on the packing for most bulbs. A bulb with a K of 5000-6500K produces good light for plants. The higher the K the more energetic the radiation. Cool whites put out ~4100K and are centered around "green" light. They are generally considered less efficient lighting for the purposes of photosynthesis than the daylight or sunlight bulbs, but the experience of many (such as Joe) puts that into question.

Of course, in my opinion there are a couple of things to consider when buying a bulb:

1. Expense: Just how much more efficient are the expensive daylight and sunlight bulbs compared to a combination of cool and warm white lights (or cool whites alone)? Is this worth the expense?

2. Efficiency: Any bulb can be made more efficient by placing it closer to plants, by increasing the photoperiod, and by surrounding the plants with reflective material such as mylar.

So, find the bulb that best meets your lighting (and wallet's) needs!

Ken

 

[Clint]

I feel like a crack addict. No light is ever enough for me. I need ATLEAST one more metal halide so I can expand my addiction I mean hobby into the basement.. hehe

"One light is too many, a thousand is never enough"

Remember guys, you have to look at your plants. Unless you want a radioactive purply color, i'd stear clear of those special plant lamps (or should I say luminares?)

 

[Meaven]

careful associating metal halide with addiction... big brother might be listening...

one thing i noticed with the "plant" type bulb is that my sundews ALL started flowering like mad, even the ones that werent looking terribly healthy. leads me to assume that these might be good for orchids, not so much for CPs. because honestly, aside from ping growers and hybridists, who really cares about the flowers? =P

 

[chloroplast]

Quote[/b] ]because honestly, aside from ping growers and hybridists, who really cares about the flowers?

That's why I initially started with cool white only which puts out more blue than red, and never used the warm whites which put out vice versa. But there are some CPs that I have (utrics, especially) that produce nice flowers, so hopefully the daylight bulb will induce them to flower more frequently.

 

[Clint]

Quote[/b] (Meaven @ Jan. 08 2007,1:15)]careful associating metal halide with addiction... big brother might be listening...

Oh crap! lol. Seriously though I only use MH for cp's and orchids!

whenever I rode the bus people thought I grew pot ehehe. Even the bus driver joked about it.

FOR THE RECORD I seriously don't grow any weed other than D. capensis of course.

 

[Joseph Clemens]

I use cool white, because it is easier for me to look at the plants with those, rather than any other I've tried, and I can get them cheaper than $1 each. Most of my plants bloom quite freely. Though I've been thinking of getting a few of the warm white, to see if they help reluctant bloomers to get busy making flowers.