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Name that Nepenthes?!!!?

Hey guys I have two nepenthes my aunt picked up that I need identified.


This guy is very large and has huge pitchers, the smallest fully grown one is about the size of my hand.


This one is much smaller and is a bit overdue for a division if u ask me.

Let me know what you guys think they are. Thanks in advance!
First one is N. 'Miranda', second looks like 'ventrara', a hybrid between alata and ventricosa, although it could just be an alata
The first one is definitely some form of N. Miranda. I agree with Iwest on the second.
Second is most definitely N. x 'Ventrata'. Nice one too!
The two most common plants in the trade, they are. And yet, I only managed to get a cutting of ventrata two days ago! ??? But the identity here can't be mistaken, you definitely have Miranda and ventrata.
Don't feel bad hcarlton I dont have a ventrata.