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VeiledFighter
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What a bunch of BS that is.
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My initial reaction to this is a tad too strong for these forums
There has to be a way to get this sorted out, that is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and it could potentially lead to ALL OF US having similar problems.....
Man, I am shocked, I am sorry to know that anyone is having to deal with such an outrage..... an appeal is the only weapon you've got, but there has to be SOMEONE with the requisite clout to get this sham exposed for what it is... MAN
Is there anything we as a community can do
Petition, e-mail or letter campaign, anything
There has to be a way to get this sorted out, that is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS and it could potentially lead to ALL OF US having similar problems.....
Man, I am shocked, I am sorry to know that anyone is having to deal with such an outrage..... an appeal is the only weapon you've got, but there has to be SOMEONE with the requisite clout to get this sham exposed for what it is... MAN
Is there anything we as a community can do
Petition, e-mail or letter campaign, anything
Between OJ, and Robert Blake getting off scott free while Martha Stewart does jail time, it's clear that our court system has gone totally haywire. It all just depends on what judge you get, or what jury you get, and it's a roll of the dice.
Having been the foreman on a jury and seeing what the average jury is like, I just pray that I never, ever have to face one, no matter how strong my case is. With many judges being elected, there's no guarantee that they are any more coherent, and in these days of liability paranoia, they ALWAYS side with the individuals claiming to be the victim. Just look at all the criminals who sue because the dog in the house they were robbing bit them.
Capslock
Having been the foreman on a jury and seeing what the average jury is like, I just pray that I never, ever have to face one, no matter how strong my case is. With many judges being elected, there's no guarantee that they are any more coherent, and in these days of liability paranoia, they ALWAYS side with the individuals claiming to be the victim. Just look at all the criminals who sue because the dog in the house they were robbing bit them.
Capslock
What a crock of poop that is!
I think you need to hire a lawyer for an appeal. You also need to stir up the media in your town. Let the local TV and news know what has happened.
Ozzy, your landlord is an a**hole. Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them. If it were my call, he'd be Nep food now.
I think you need to hire a lawyer for an appeal. You also need to stir up the media in your town. Let the local TV and news know what has happened.
Ozzy, your landlord is an a**hole. Some people are alive only because it's illegal to kill them. If it were my call, he'd be Nep food now.
Yes, you need to petition the legislators who crafted this ordinance to change it to exempt CPs. I'll be happy to send you some new plants for free once you are able to care for them without harrassment.[b said:
Man, that just plain sucks! If you do move somewhere else, will you be able to still keep cps?
Also, if you wont he trail, did you still have to pay 200$ in fees?
Lastly, I do hope you get the media involved and on your side. Plus, get a lawyer, how much does it cost to hire one on average? Zongyi
Also, if you wont he trail, did you still have to pay 200$ in fees?
Lastly, I do hope you get the media involved and on your side. Plus, get a lawyer, how much does it cost to hire one on average? Zongyi
The problem with hiring lawyers is that they are all $$$$$. They will only take your case on a contingency basis if there's an award that can be shared at the end, and in a case like this, there is no monetary award, unless Ozzy decides to sue for harassment or something, which is highly unlikely to succeed.
Capslock
Capslock
I thought if you win the thing, the opposition has to pay the fees of your lawyer. Zongyi
Did they give you any indication of what plant or animal they thought you had that was dangerous? If I had to guess, I would say it has nothing to do with the plants and everything to do with the snakes. Some people are just terribly frightened of snakes and do not differentiate between poisonous and non poisonous snakes. I would at least consult with a lawyer and then ask him or her about the possiblillity of a suit against the person involved. I would also confront the landlord and tell them that you are considering a suit to recup. your losses. If you do indeed have no plants or animals that fall into this category that this should be an open and shut case. I'm not sure what state you live in, but
someone is hoodwinking the justice system. Usually before criminal charges are files there first must be an investigation into whether a crime was committed or not. When the investigation is completed, law enforment presents its evidence to the DA who then decides whether there is sufficient evidence to file charges. It sounds like the whole investigation process was thrown out the window.
EDIT: I just saw the outcome. I guess I was right about the snakes. If there is an ordinance about venomous animals and contrictors, then you are out of luck on those two. If the ordinance does not specify exceptions and both of those snakes are as said (one is venomous and one is a constrictor) than you will not win at appeal. The CP are a different matter. I would contact local and national media immediately. Admitt that the snakes are against the ordinance so you can take away any argument about your dangerous plants and animals before the prosecution can make it. Tell them your real problem is with the government confiscating your plants. Be sure to bring up the fact that these plants are sold at many local nurserys and at hundredst of hardware stores such as Lowe's and Home Depot. If you have a local Lowe's or Home Depot that sells thes plants, contact them and tell them that plants they sell are being confiscated. Let them get their lawyers involved. Create a public relation nightmare for the district attorney and judge. Let the public know what their elected officials are wasting their tax dollars on.
someone is hoodwinking the justice system. Usually before criminal charges are files there first must be an investigation into whether a crime was committed or not. When the investigation is completed, law enforment presents its evidence to the DA who then decides whether there is sufficient evidence to file charges. It sounds like the whole investigation process was thrown out the window.
EDIT: I just saw the outcome. I guess I was right about the snakes. If there is an ordinance about venomous animals and contrictors, then you are out of luck on those two. If the ordinance does not specify exceptions and both of those snakes are as said (one is venomous and one is a constrictor) than you will not win at appeal. The CP are a different matter. I would contact local and national media immediately. Admitt that the snakes are against the ordinance so you can take away any argument about your dangerous plants and animals before the prosecution can make it. Tell them your real problem is with the government confiscating your plants. Be sure to bring up the fact that these plants are sold at many local nurserys and at hundredst of hardware stores such as Lowe's and Home Depot. If you have a local Lowe's or Home Depot that sells thes plants, contact them and tell them that plants they sell are being confiscated. Let them get their lawyers involved. Create a public relation nightmare for the district attorney and judge. Let the public know what their elected officials are wasting their tax dollars on.
No Zongyi, we Americans have a b*stardized form of British Law. It works well for us overall but the result of which is that there exist very few situations in which the plaintiff has to "pay up" if the cookie crumbles unfavorably...the ones with which I have any familiarity are mostly real estate. Illinois has a few remedies available (counter for frivolous) however he is in a southern state and these issues would best be discussed with a practicing attorney in his state. It has been my experience most lawyers will spend some time with you without the clock running to get a feel for what is going on. It truly doesn't hurt to flip through the yellow pages and look for an attorney who advertises that an initial consultation is free.
Is the judge aware that these dangerous plants are being sold at Lowes, Home Depot, and local nurseries? Will the police be knocking on their doors too?
Where did you get the snakes? Aren't they sold at any old pet store?
Sorry about the outcome... I guess we were naive to think the court could see through empty rhetoric.
Where did you get the snakes? Aren't they sold at any old pet store?
Sorry about the outcome... I guess we were naive to think the court could see through empty rhetoric.
It's actually a good idea to not have the plaintiffs pay the defendants legal fees if their lawsuits fail. Otherwise, no citizens would ever be able to take the risk of suing giant abusive companies because they could never afford to lose. And as we all now know, you can lose just about any case.
Casplock
Casplock
Can you give us some specifics on where this case was tried and what the case number is. Contact the ICPS, they may be able to offer some legal advice.
Finch
Whats it to ya?
Well...
You should have use the older but generally more precice term of 'insectivorous' as opposed to carnivorus, Since the plant are generaly desinged to trap insects, they do not cope well long-term with animal (vertebrate) proteins, wich can cause burning of the leaf due to the improper diet (of some). Because of the fact the some plants burn at all from meat, this substantial evedence in itself that it is not adapted to the capture of large creatures. The bait usually is nectar, wich attracts insects seeking it.
.
As for the back-fanged snake thng, if the ordinace make no povesitions for nonleathal venom, there is a conflict, however stupid and unreasonable it might be, it is considerd enough justificaton for the removal of animals.
I would argue that the law is too broad and if they make exempts for more dangerous animals sutch as dogs and cats, they are being hipocritical, and that the prosicutar greatly exagerates, doing a quick serch for the most sensational information he could find, not noting the sansationalaly exeptional curcumstances that lead to these animals capture; he was being shortsighted and biased. You migt want to mention that these cases are often cited as the capacity of cp's because some of us cpr's like to think its remotely plausible that their plants COULD in fact catch these animals, while reality is that the circumstances under witch that migt occur are exeptional, akin to a freak accident- kind of like dunking a basketball and having the wall to witch it is mounted collapse on top of you.
You should have use the older but generally more precice term of 'insectivorous' as opposed to carnivorus, Since the plant are generaly desinged to trap insects, they do not cope well long-term with animal (vertebrate) proteins, wich can cause burning of the leaf due to the improper diet (of some). Because of the fact the some plants burn at all from meat, this substantial evedence in itself that it is not adapted to the capture of large creatures. The bait usually is nectar, wich attracts insects seeking it.
.
Also attest tle likelyhood of it being a danger. Dogs and cats are far mor mobile and are a clear and present danger for any one of the animals their worried about, and if cp's fall under this catigory, so do they , for it is obvious that 'They are nondescimante killers that will kill and consume anything that is unlucky enough to find itself within it's deadly graps' including other peoples pets. Using the reasons and justifications given, dogs and cats are also banned under the ordinance, and thus the ownership of them are aslo illigal in the city. Dogs Kill many people each year, and cat kill millions of small animals every week. Cp's kill dozens of small insects every week.[b said:
As for the back-fanged snake thng, if the ordinace make no povesitions for nonleathal venom, there is a conflict, however stupid and unreasonable it might be, it is considerd enough justificaton for the removal of animals.
I would argue that the law is too broad and if they make exempts for more dangerous animals sutch as dogs and cats, they are being hipocritical, and that the prosicutar greatly exagerates, doing a quick serch for the most sensational information he could find, not noting the sansationalaly exeptional curcumstances that lead to these animals capture; he was being shortsighted and biased. You migt want to mention that these cases are often cited as the capacity of cp's because some of us cpr's like to think its remotely plausible that their plants COULD in fact catch these animals, while reality is that the circumstances under witch that migt occur are exeptional, akin to a freak accident- kind of like dunking a basketball and having the wall to witch it is mounted collapse on top of you.
Hehe, but Canada is also a decendent from Britan, so the laws should be fairly simular[b said:
Ozzy, do you mind if I post a link on CPUK? I don't think some of the members know of the situation here yet. Zongyi
Now please don't post a link until I figure out what I'm going to do. I don't really know very many people there and I don't feel like hearing what people think that don't even know me right now. I'm trying to do things just to keep my mind off of this situation for awhile.
Ozzy, take everything you took to Court and go to your local newspaper NOW! this is one human interest story they are going to love. it sounds to me like the judge and prosicuter were a lil to buddy buddy and you got railroaded. i am sorry for your plants and you are probably right in that there is nothing you can really do for them even if you win an appeal but take this nice guys on. there are more than enough reporters around that love tackling this kind of stuff. get this idiocity to stop. im not sure where you are in Ohio but if yah let me know what major paper is near by ill talk to the guys i know in the MNA and see if there are any strings i can pull from over here.
PS say the word and i will send yah what ever plants i can to replace any you have lost.
PS say the word and i will send yah what ever plants i can to replace any you have lost.
