FOTO feeding Nep. TRUNCATA with FISH !!!

[fc3srx713b]

does it smell?

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Joe I have two Ball Pythons, and they are both 12 to 13 years old. I tried to get them to take rats and they will not touch them. Besides at the moment I have no place to store frozen mice. My wife would have a conniption if I asked to place some frozen rats in the freezer. They have been feeding live for 12 to 13 years, and I haven't had a problem. As I said I will be using frozen with any new acquisition I plan on getting, but then I intend to breed too so will raise my own mice. Use CO2 to knock the mice out like the corporations do ,then have a separate freezer for them. After feeding my snakes 12 to 13 years live mice with no issues, I am not going to attempt fix something that isn't broke.

 

[MrAga73]

fc3srx713b,
I smell something , but nothing of very intense and bad.
It smell a little like to go to a fish market! It looks like as I would be in holiday to the beach,ahahah!

Man...I got too high temperatures in those last weeks in my terrarium...I have lowered the humidity in order to have less hot temperatures.
For the rest, all is going fine.

Mr_Aga
Milan - ITALY Beach!

 

[dlybrand]

LOL! I just read the last couple of pages in this topic! Apparently some people are having trouble interpereting much of Mr_Aga's English. I have a feeling misunderstanding has something to do with much of this anger.

By the way, Mr_Aga, your English isn't bad. I think it's just people trying to read too fast.

-D. Lybrand

 

[fc3srx713b]

lol, yeah i think so too!

 

[MrAga73]

Ahahha!
dlybrand and fc3srx713b!
Don't go to doubt about it if I tell you that my brain doesn't act like my bad "amatorial" english,ehehe!
The most times I write here on the forum in Italy is early morning! For example now it is 3:45 a.m!
And I am also used not to read a second time what I have written!
See yah!!!!!!

Mr_Aga
Milan - ITALY

 

[fc3srx713b]

lol, GO TO SLEEP AGA!!!!!

 

[dlybrand]

Hey! That Goldi guy insulted me! I guess I didn't read too carefully until now. I suppose he's right, though. My bio teacher was pretty horrified when she saw me asking a housefly the answer to number 7 on our last test.

-D. Lybrand

 

[Goldi]

For this insult, dlybrand, I apologize, but i was just too shocked about this whole situation.
This changes nothing on my point of view on feeding living fish, for me it is wrong and cruel.

 

[fc3srx713b]

Quote[/b] (Goldi @ April 08 2006,5:19)]For this insult, dlybrand, I apologize, but i was just too shocked about this whole situation.
This changes nothing on my point of view on feeding living fish, for me it is wrong and cruel.

Quote[/b] ]you know, im not trying to bash anyone, after all its just a point of veiw right?

and thats fine, i respect that....

 

[endparenthesis]

Hate to break it to those labelling fish "higher lifeforms"... but fish aren't wired to feel pain. It's all just an involuntary stimulous response. They don't require fear and trauma to avoid damage... their brain simply tells their body to evade and it happens, without resistance. They and other simple lifeforms are basically organic robots, programmed with DNA.

Conscious beings like us need more than just a signal from the brain to stop ourselves from doing something stupid, and thus pain enters the evolutionary picture. And of course we start anthropomorphizing and assume that if we feel pain, everything must. But consciousness is a relatively recent development that requires a lot of hardware and a lot of energy to sustain it... most animals have gone on just fine for eons without it.

I think consciousness is implicit in the word "pain", which is what we get hung up on. That term doesn't apply to non-conscious creatures. There's just "nobody home" to experience it.

I'd never advocate injuring or killing a living creature for no good reason (it's very bad for our psyches too)... especially the conscious ones... but I'm just saying... if you're really heartbroken about the fish, you're the only one going through any torment here. The fish certainly doesn't care.

 

[fc3srx713b]

 

[MrAga73]

I really can tell you that I really love my truncata! More than the fish! I grow my truncata from over 2 years!
And if it will grow bigger and nice I will be happy that the fish did a good work on it.
And the ex fish in "fish heaven " will be also happy!
Mann...it is 5:00 a.m. and I MUST go to sleeeeppppppp!!!!
Kiss kiss

Mr_Aga
Milan - ITALY

 

[fc3srx713b]

youre nuts man! GO TO SLEEP! your not gonna see your truncata grow any faster like that!

 

[dlybrand]

Quote[/b] (endparenthesis @ April 07 2006,9:32)]labelling fish "higher lifeforms"

I've read the thread about four times now. Where is this? I think peoples' issues are with killing things in general. I understand how it is less acceptable to many people to kill things that could be considered a pet (regardless of sentience) than it is to kill something you find crawling around on the ground.

Personally, I feed my CPs by letting insects loose in my enclosures. If they get eaten it's 'simulated nature', not cruelty. And besides, if I manage to catch a queen ant, I can feed a single Nepenthes for many months by establishing a nest in its pot! (That's a tip, kids!)

-D. Lybrand

 

[JB_OrchidGuy]

Hmmmm I am not sure I would want to start an ant nest in my truncata pot, but to each their own. I do like bringing my plants in every now and again and showing them off when company comes over. LOL I would hate to bring in an ant nest to boot. Everyone knows my feelings on killing things already. Killing it just to kill it is not a good thing, but killing it to feed it to a plant, animal or yourself is ok. I wouldn't torture the thing before killing it, but I don't see dropping a fish in a large trap torture. The fish has the ability to breath air if need be so it didn't suficate. ( I thought beta's were the only ones to do that so I learned something) I would say the enzymes killed it. As endparinthesis said though they are not wired to feel pain so the fish didn't know the difference anyways. (I didn't know that either LOL) I guess I just don't see all the fuss. Its not like he took the fish and placed it on dry land to just kill it. He fed it to his truncata. Woopty do. To each their own I guess. Aga I hope your truncata grows up to have pitchers larger than 2 litter coke bottles! I know I hope mine does too! LOL

 

[LLeopardGGecko]

Quote[/b] (endparenthesis @ April 07 2006,7:32)]Hate to break it to those labelling fish "higher lifeforms"... but fish aren't wired to feel pain. It's all just an involuntary stimulous response. They don't require fear and trauma to avoid damage... their brain simply tells their body to evade and it happens, without resistance. They and other simple lifeforms are basically organic robots, programmed with DNA.

Conscious beings like us need more than just a signal from the brain to stop ourselves from doing something stupid, and thus pain enters the evolutionary picture. And of course we start anthropomorphizing and assume that if we feel pain, everything must. But consciousness is a relatively recent development that requires a lot of hardware and a lot of energy to sustain it... most animals have gone on just fine for eons without it.

I think consciousness is implicit in the word "pain", which is what we get hung up on. That term doesn't apply to non-conscious creatures. There's just "nobody home" to experience it.

I'd never advocate injuring or killing a living creature for no good reason (it's very bad for our psyches too)...  especially the conscious ones... but I'm just saying... if you're really heartbroken about the fish, you're the only one going through any torment here. The fish certainly doesn't care.

Wow, what a great post! I never knew that fish didn't feel pain. Thanks for the insight

*goes to feed tons of fish to his Nepenthes*

 

[neps]

Quote[/b] ]Hate to break it to those labelling fish "higher lifeforms"... but fish aren't wired to feel pain. It's all just an involuntary stimulous response. They don't require fear and trauma to avoid damage... their brain simply tells their body to evade and it happens, without resistance. They and other simple lifeforms are basically organic robots, programmed with DNA.

I hate to break it to you, buddy, but you're naive.
There is considerable evidence that fish do, in fact, feel
pain. Pain is a fairly basic stimulus, and given its very
fundamental nature and function, it's highly
improbable that organisms as complex as fish do not
experience it. The links below support my assertion.



See the following:
BBC News
Fishing Hurts
Cruelty of Fishing

 

[nepenthes_ak]

So what if hurting a fish matters, Weve been doing it for thousands of years, God intended for Fish to feel pain, and thats that!

Now for ants...

STarting a decient sized ant colony, would be tough and you would need a multi queen ant colony to keep up with a single plant... even then you would seveirly kill an ant colony.

It taking about (on average) 2 - 3 months for an ant egg to fully mature, This is just enough to have a few Ants to HArvest food right befor Winter... to suport the colony over winter (im talking Northern Ants that need hibernation) Then it takes about 2-3 years to have an established colony... So unless you had the right species of ant like Tetramorium caespitum with 20 or so queens and kept it that way for about 3 years you MIGHT be able to suport youre Nepenthes for about a few montsh befor needing to stop before seriously handicaping youre colony, if not killing it from lack of workers to suply food for the eggs and then well you would keep bouncing up and down every odd year... Now if you had 2 or three ant colonys so you could Switch around then we might have a deal!!

sorry but youre ant idea is almost improbable

ive done the reaserch...

muahahah

cheers

 

[Jason Wong]

Yes I agree there is evidence that fish do feel pain. Even octopuses can feel 'stress' in the concious way humans do.

But...what about lizards? Just to throw more fat into the fire...

My brother's N. x miranda

Lunching on a

The lizard was caught by a natural process, so pls don't give me all that **** in the last few pages.