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Discuss: Nomenclature edits on forum posts

SubRosa

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Making minor corrections in spelling and punctuation in a seamless manner shouldn't offend anyone. It's nothing more than a glorified spell check.
 

adnedarn

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The idea that somehow newbies will be hopelessly lost and confused is insulting. I'm by no means an experienced grower, but I do consider myself to be of average intelligence. It's not rocket science to determine that "nep" refers to Nepenthes.

Anyway... Thank you, Andrew, for coming up with a reasonable solution.

I don't think he was talking about they would be lost... I think he is talking about them absorbing and then passing on incorrect writing when it would be so easy for us to have it written properly there for them to learn.
 
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Paul, I believe you were advocating for private contact about corrections?

I was - but its been made abundantly clear that such a level of involvement would be tedious for admin and slow things down excessively, which I would not wish to impose on anyone.
 

Joseph Clemens

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The idea that somehow newbies will be hopelessly lost and confused is insulting. I'm by no means an experienced grower, but I do consider myself to be of average intelligence. It's not rocket science to determine that "nep" refers to Nepenthes.

Anyway... Thank you, Andrew, for coming up with a reasonable solution.
Perhaps it is insulting, if that were what I meant. Andrew understood my meaning.

But do consider that, when I was a newbie to CP, that was in about 1968, and I was between eleven and twelve years old. I was already involved with organic vegetable gardening, and was learning about orchids at my local chapter of the American Orchid Society. One night, while waiting for my ride, after an orchid society meeting, I killed some time perusing the garden center of a nearby hardware store. While there I discovered Dionaea muscipula in a sales display. At the time, it was the first CP I had ever been exposed to. I bought the rhizomes, then wrote to the company that had produced them. It wasn't until I received their reply, which mentioned other CP species they had available, that I even had a clue that other CP existed. My CP world grew quickly, after that. I wouldn't say I became hopelessly lost, but I did have various difficulties through the years, deciphering non-standard CP names, and more than one typo has led me to initially learn some names incorrectly.
 
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I understood your meaning... and its implication: that those of us who are new need our hands held.

As I said earlier, it's one thing to have a discussion about cultivars, taxonomic revision, etc. This can be productive. It's quite another to--as I've seen you do--correct every instance in which a species name is used alone when the context clearly indicates which genus is under discussion or when a TF member uses a common abbreviation. That is what I find insulting. If I type "nep," I know full well what it means and so does everyone else on here. If someone can't decipher "nep" on a carnivorous plant forum, then s/he may wish to join a basic reading comprehension forum first.

I'm done with this discussion. Andrew came up with an excellent and reasonable solution, and I thank him for that.
 
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I have not read through all of this, so if everything has already been resolved, then please disregard this post.

However, I once made a list of common abbreviations for a turtle forum I was on. It was a good reference for new members of that forum and the same idea might help with problems here. There could even be a standard from for abbreviations to be used.

Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.
:D
 

pappydew

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I have not read through all of this, so if everything has already been resolved, then please disregard this post.

However, I once made a list of common abbreviations for a turtle forum I was on. It was a good reference for new members of that forum and the same idea might help with problems here. There could even be a standard from for abbreviations to be used.

Just a suggestion, take it or leave it.
:D
I think it's a good suggestion. I've seen these types of lists on other hobbyist forums.

Changing abbreviations is a bit trivial to me. There was a fairly recent breach in communication with a newer member who didn't understand "Sarr" or "VFT." All it took was a simple question and clarification from other members. I think it's reasonable to expect that if someone doesn't understand something, and they're willing to learn, they will ask!
 
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Luca, I can set the edit as invisible.... If people could agree that small edits like that are fine,

That could lead to further moderator tool abuse, the whole meaning of a post could be altered and no indication that it had been.
 

Not a Number

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And on the other hand what's to keep someone of falsely accusing the staff of editing their posts.

The simple answer is this activity gets recorded into the forum activity/event log.

And I suggest the you review the Terms of Service that you agreed to when you signed up for membership.
 

adnedarn

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That could lead to further moderator tool abuse, the whole meaning of a post could be altered and no indication that it had been.

Sure, we "could" do that.... But doing something like that could jeopardize their moderator position here. Without the note being left in your post, there is still a history of the edit left in the admin control panel where I can see every single edit, post delete/move/merge, whatever done by the moderator crew. They will still be required to put in a "reason for edit" whenever it is more than the edits suggested here that be done automatically/invisibly.
Also, I would like to add that I wouldn't consider what has been being done a "moderator tool abuse" as described it is something that was done for many many years, but not seen as much in recent years with Joseph's absence from the forum, although I believe another mod had been doing some of it in his absence... Joseph only picked back up what he was doing before his medical leave from the forum. But as the tides change (people no longer want it done) I will work with you to keep your TF experience as friendly as possible- hence this conversation. So I have no reason to think changes will be made by the moderator crew outside of the small ones mentioned above.

Hope that helps. Again though, we are only in the discussion phase of this option, and a poll will likely show up soon to see what the masses would like.

Andrew
 
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Thank you for that reply and clarification Andrew. I must comment that of course you do not consider what has been done as "moderator tool abuse" otherwise you would not have allowed the situation to have continued for as long. However. clearly from the sentiments expressed in this thread several members do.
 
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... when the context clearly indicates which genus is under discussion or when a TF member uses a common abbreviation...

But that's the whole point. A newbie (and I fully admit to being one) will not be able to parse that context or recognize that 'common' abbreviation and deduce exactly what is under discussion. I personally find it kind of annoying if people just assume everyone knows their obscure jargon. How hard is it to just be clear and precise? It smacks to me of people being lazy and/or revelling in their supposed superiority. Give me clear names and terms any day over that.
 

SubRosa

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But that's the whole point. A newbie (and I fully admit to being one) will not be able to parse that context or recognize that 'common' abbreviation and deduce exactly what is under discussion. I personally find it kind of annoying if people just assume everyone knows their obscure jargon. How hard is it to just be clear and precise? It smacks to me of people being lazy and/or revelling in their supposed superiority. Give me clear names and terms any day over that.
And many find it intellectually lazy of people to have to have their information spoon fed to them. If someone posts a word you don't understand, it is your responsibility to ask the person who posted it what it means if it's important to you.
 
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I'm a newb and when I read something I don't understand, I just ask. Everyone here is super fast to respond. Even if its common abbreviation you don't understand. Reading from archive posts won't answer all your questions. I mean i first didn't know what CP meant. But honestly they aren't that hard to understand.

I also don't think calling the experts, veteran growers, junior growers, newbs lazy and and they feel a sense of superiority helps at all. I mean they are after the people people you need help from.
 
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I think the way to handle an alleged mistake posted on a public forum is with a post in the same thread respectfully offering the alternative information. This is not the job of mods, although they are not necessarily precluded from doing so. It's the job of any member with the information to put it out. It's the job of the mods to see that things stay within whatever guidelines on forum behavior the forum operator sets.
After reading everything here, & pondering -- SubRosa's post pretty much sums up my feelings. The downside to the revisions is significant (as evidenced by the existence of this thread) & the upside is so small as to be negligible**.

** if somehow you disagree with the upside, please explain how virtually every other CP forum exists (without issues) without a moderator jumping in and modifying content :scratch:
 
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In response to posts 72 through 75, a list of common abbreviations would solve the problem.

That's right ^ it's a shameless plug for my earlier suggestion! :D

But yeah, take it or leave it. I actually don't care if edits are made or not, I'm just trying to help out with an easy solution. I love this place either way.
 
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Seems I'm a bit late to this conversation and a decision has been made already. One that I would say I'm quite content with. As said in numerous posts which I will not bother quoting any of the major issue was the method in which corrections are being made. People don't enjoy having their written work altered without their permission. On every forum I've been a member of the moderator's editing abilities were there to remove any offensive material or anything that could violate the rules of the specific forum. Without going back and reading the rules of Terraforums I don't believe it is against any official rules to use incorrect nomenclature.

My opinion on the outcome is that posting a response is in fact the best way to go about offering a correction. In the majority of situations I would expect this to be a simple one or two post deviation from the topic at hand, nothing to fret about in my opinion. If it happens to be something that is more largely disputed and starts to dilute the OPs topic, then there is always the offer of splitting it into another thread.

I do believe that there can be exceptions made to the necessity of the correction being made in a separate post. For minor errors such as capitalization and spelling typos I wouldn't have a problem with the change being made. I would however expect a reason to still be stated, maybe describing the correction: sp. error, Droserar: Drosera or cap error, Capensis:capensis. This thread has made it clear that some would still have an issue with these simple corrections. I would hope that Joseph or whoever else might be making corrections could take special notice to PM or post in response to these people rather than intruding on their work.

As far as simple abbreviations, Nep:Nepenthes, VFT: Venus Flytrap, Sarr:Sarracenia, these are common abbreviations used throughout the hobby. I feel it is trivial to correct these and if a newbie does not understand them they should simply ask. If I notice that I am posting in a newbie's thread then I would typically make an effort to clarify and abbreviations. If I don't, it is certainly easy enough to ask for clarification. I have been the newbie in several hobbies, each of which has their own abbreviations. It is simply part of the hobby to learn these abbreviations and before you know it using them yourself.
 
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adnedarn

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Who does want edits, who doesn't care, who takes much offense to changes being made with or without notification at the bottom of their posts is all too much for anyone to keep straight. We will stick with what I said in the earlier post....

http://www.terraforums.com/forums/s...-forum-posts?p=1171860&viewfull=1#post1171860

<clip>

Posts will not be edited for nomenclature, if mods (or members!) feel they would like to continue this word, I would say they are welcome to PM the user OR post a new reply if they feel the error is strong enough/frequent enough to warrant it. But these efforts will be from users who may or may not be moderators and their PMs/posts are not from a moderator stand point but rather people who care about the correctness of the posts enough to take the time to do so. I realize sometimes that can make a topic go off topic, feel free to contact a moderator or admin and we are all able to "split" a post and make that nomenclature discussion it's own topic to help keep the topic, well, on topic. I know some here said they don't want a public reply... Hopefully the people that are helping (PMing and posting) can keep these people in mind and try to work with them in the method they would prefer, but I also hope that those people can understand if their preferred method is not always used.


If nothing else, I hope the public discussion on this has brought some interest into each member to maybe take the extra effort to write the stuff as "correctly" as they can. I know there are those that see no point, and will continue to use whatever aberrations, capitalization (or lack there of), and improper use of single or double quotes etc..... so be it. Maybe they'll change their mind some time! :-O :rookwoot:

Thanks again for the conversation,
Andrew
 
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