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Wisconsin church shooting

Ozzy

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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Ever had anyone pull a gun on you? Well, I have. A few times. It's not much fun.
Yes, a few times, and I've been shot. Do I blame the gun? No.
[b said:
Quote[/b] ] I find it greatly amusing that the people who most want concealed carry live in the very safest neighborhoods. Are they afraid of the yuppie neighbors?

I don't live with yuppies, but I don't see where you live has anything to do with if you want to own a gun.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Heck, most gang-bangers do concealed carry.
That's true, but how many have a concealed permit? How many have been educated on when and when not to pull your gun. How many would get a permit if it was legal where they live? Comparing a gang member to a man with a legal conceal permit is like comparing Charles mansion with a cop that had to use his gun in the line of duty. I have no fear of somebody that has a concealed permit. I know that they went through a fbi background check, a mental evaluation and has had training on how and when to use a firearm. Concealed permit carriers are responsible citizens.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ] I think people who love guns should be forced to live in bad neighborhoods where there is plenty of gunfire and guns. Send your kids to school there! Teach 'em to hit the floor!
I have a gun to make sure that I or my kids will never live like that.


[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Concealed carry wouldn't have solved the issue in that church, it would have ended in even more fatalities.
I don't agree. If I was there and had a concealed gun, I would have done my best to take him out as soon as he took his first shot. He would have been taken out, sparing 7 of the 8 that was killed.
 
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I'm with ozzy. Do you think someone cares if there is laws on guns? IF they going to break the law, why not have a weapon while doing it? Think they care if they are breaking one more by having an illegal weapon? NOPE but they now know the good guys dont have guns, so they are free to do what they want. That's why I think conceiled carry permits should be allowed.
 

Ozzy

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[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 13 2005,9:57)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Yes, a few times, and I've been shot. Do I blame the gun? No
who's blaming the gun?
The people that want them banned.
 
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no they don't. do you want drugs to be legal? if not, are you blaming the drugs? it's the people who choose to take them.
another example... should people be able to have nuclear weapons? if not, are you blaming the nuclear weapon?
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 13 2005,7:03)]no they don't. do you want drugs to be legal? if not, are you blaming the drugs? it's the people who choose to take them.
another example... should people be able to have nuclear weapons? if not, are you blaming the nuclear weapon?
Those "examples" are proving nothing here, only further proving what ozzy just said.. You always seem to say stuff like that wolf
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Besides they have nothing to do with guns.

It's like saying,

"If you wouldn't put a bone on a hook and go dogging, then why would you do it to a fish?"

There's nothing like a slab of golden retriever on the bbq
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my point is that just because you want to ban guns doesn't mean you're blaming the guns.
If you want to blame drugs, you're not blaming the drugs. If you want to ban nuclear weapons, you're not banning the atomic weapons.
how is what I said only proving further what ozzy said? That sounds like an empty statement to me.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 13 2005,7:20)]my point is that just because you want to ban guns doesn't mean you're blaming the guns.
If you want to blame drugs, you're not blaming the drugs. If you want to ban nuclear weapons, you're not banning the atomic weapons.
how is what I said only proving further what ozzy said? That sounds like an empty statement to me.
if you want to blame drugs... your blaming the drugs.. you arent making sence here
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if you want to BAN (lol you prolly meant this) drugs, your BLAMING what drugs can do to people, ie BLAMING the DRUGS.

In other words, it's an empty statement
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I have to agree that it's not the guns that harm people.. it's the person pulling the trigger. If you take away guns they'll just do it with knives or axes. Besides, what about people like me who HAVE to have and carry a weapon for protection in the wilderness? Or people like my family who HAVE to hunt to stay alive through the winter because we're too broke to buy food?
Sorry... but those evil guns are the reason I'm still alive..
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Bonnie @ Mar. 13 2005,7:35)]I have to agree that it's not the guns that harm people.. it's the person pulling the trigger. If you take away guns they'll just do it with knives or axes. Besides, what about people like me who HAVE to have and carry a weapon for protection in the wilderness? Or people like my family who HAVE to hunt to stay alive through the winter because we're too broke to buy food?
Sorry... but those evil guns are the reason I'm still alive..
actually you do have to have guns.. there's bears up there
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EDIT: nevermind, thats exactly what you said! lol
 
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I'm right with you Alpha.  

Suuurrre....guns don't hurt people. 30 K+ people are killed in the US every year by guns that didn't hurt them. I could throw a .38 bullet at someone as hard as I could and it might ding them on the snoot or something, or put their eye out...but it wouldn't kill them.  Something about the hammer and barrel comes into play here.  

Another thing...I'm sure when concealed carry becomes legal in Illinois, all the permit owners will be getting exhaustive classes in the safe use of firearms. What a joke! That's funny.

Ask any big city cop what they think about concealed carry.  That just means they'll have to treat us all like we've got a gun...and you know what that means. Like I said...if a person loves guns, they're most welcome to move to the Englewood neighborhood in Chicago, where they and their family will be surrounded by them, 24-7. April
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (aprilh @ Mar. 13 2005,8:45)]I'm right with you Alpha.  

Suuurrre....guns don't hurt people. 30 K+ people are killed in the US every year by guns that didn't hurt them. I could throw a .38 bullet at someone as hard as I could and it might ding them on the snoot or something, or put their eye out...but it wouldn't kill them.  Something about the hammer and barrel comes into play here.  

Another thing...I'm sure when concealed carry becomes legal in Illinois, all the permit owners will be getting exhaustive classes in the safe use of firearms. What a joke! That's funny.

Ask any big city cop what they think about concealed carry.  That just means they'll have to treat us all like we've got a gun...and you know what that means. Like I said...if a person loves guns, they're most welcome to move to the Englewood neighborhood in Chicago, where they and their family will be surrounded by them, 24-7. April
You're right. They don't. It's the dumb person who decides to pull the trigger.

What's the big joke about that? It's not funny. Education is the key, not prevention.

Sure, keyword "Big City". Black market guns everywhere. Perhaps you could enlighten me (through pm, see rest of post)

Anyways, I advise you all settle down on the gun law debating. First we're hijacking the thread, and second, it's a very emotive subject and always ends in arguing and the locking of the thread. If you feel you have to tell the other person off so much, do it via PM
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PM me april and we'll exchange views and perhaps get a better understanding of why the other feels that way about gun laws.

Regards,

-John
 

Ozzy

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Here's another post on the new listserv archive I found from Sept. that almost proves this is the same guy.

[b said:
Quote[/b] ]Okay I'll jump in here too. Not with an answer though.

I will be in Bateman's Bay for 9 days at the end of this month. Temps should be in the low 70's day, 50's ate night. Anyone know of any CP places to photograph? I am hoping to have a really good digital for the trip. I should be able to travel & explore after I've adjusted to the extreme change from Wisconsin.

Anyone have a clue as to where I will be?

Terry Ratzmann


>Can anyone recommend any good CP sites near the Outer Banks? I will be visiting there next week on a much needed vacation. I know its near Flytrap Country . .
 

PlantAKiss

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Oh its definitely the same guy. The article mentions he was into plants and grew flytraps. Same name, location.

How strange. But you never know what might make someone go over the edge like that. Its very sad.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (Scott @ Mar. 13 2005,8:27)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (0zzy @ Mar. 13 2005,11:19)]Too bad Wisconsin didn't have a concealed permit law. Somebody probably could have stopped him before he killed all those people.
On and odd and sorta similar note, I have a relative in Georgia(though I always forget exactly what city) where you are required to carry a own and carry a gun if you're over 18.  Needless to say, there is basically no crime from the residents ;)  

Now for the out-of-towners who are passing through and decide to try something, I've heard its quite amusing when half a dozen people suddenly pull guns on the thief.
That's Kennesaw, Georgia, a suburb of Atlanta. The ordinance was passed after the Morton Grove, Il handgun ban. The law is non-binding and no penalties are attached, but it had the intended effect. The burglary count in the city went from 62 the previous year (average) to zero the year after the law, and has remained near zero ever since despite the massive growth (Cherokee county has become the fastest growth county in the state) and despite being adjacent to Cobb county where violent crime is significant - at least in some parts of town.

I used to be a rather ardent gun-control supporter, but stories like this make me think that a different approach is required. We can't keep guns from dangerous people, but we CAN try to get more law-abiding citizens to carry concealed weapons.
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] (SunDoode182 @ Mar. 13 2005,10:13)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Mar. 13 2005,7:03)]There's nothing like a slab of golden retriever on the bbq
confused.gif
Golden retriever's a little tricky. I personally prefer smoked chihuahua... you can even pick your teeth with their bones when you're done! >;-D
 
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[b said:
Quote[/b] ]if you want to BAN (lol you prolly meant this) drugs, your BLAMING what drugs can do to people, ie BLAMING the DRUGS.
eerr.. yeah I did mean ban LOL
I don't blame drugs either. I blame the people who take them for being stupid. but ok, maybe that wasn't the best analogy. That's why i had two lol.
and what about nuclear weapons? do you blame the nuclear weapons or the people that use them? yet you want them banned don't you?
[b said:
Quote[/b] ]You're right. They don't. It's the dumb person who decides to pull the trigger.
I don't think anyone but the people who just want to bash gun control people said anything about the gun being to blame.

by the way... one thing is gun CONTROL and the other is a complete ban on guns. I'm for gun control, NOT banning all guns/weapons. Nobody needs a machine gun for "protection" if you ask me. Neither does each person in the house need 50 guns. the only reason for those kinds of things is to kill as many people as you can in the shortest period of time that you can. same with concealed weapons. If you want it for defense, showing it off is more effective than hiding it.
 
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