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Venus-flytrap

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Hi Snowy Falcon,
Both you and I are born again Christians and share the same faith with our lord through Jesus Christ.

There are problems with both evolution and also for recent creationism. I would recommend reading a book entitled 'Creation vs evolution, the facts and the fallacies' by Alan Hayward 1985.

The Genesis account is a poem to remeber the Sabbath. This is one of the most multi layered books in the Bible. It rhyms in its original language and contyains structure of how God put into order through poetry of how the world came to be.. It is NOT a scientific document..

With the flood and fossils, plate tectonics etc.. the flood was an account that originated fro Babylonian texts and the origins of that came from the world wide rise in sea levels at the end of the last ice age.. Sea levels rose by 80m. A sudden flooding of low level land would have wiped out a huge proportion of man kind. Imagine what an 80m rise in sea level would be like say to a New Yorker..

I would suggest read the book, it explains a view of ancient creationism and an old earth....
 
Joined
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Just a few thoughts...

Wes, I'm not understanding what you mean... I personally am certainly not saying that biblical creation is a metaphor for evolution. I'm saying that *some* people do, and they feel just find blending the two together.

Also, I agree with Tamlin--kudos to everyone for keeping their cool! That hardly ever happens!
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I think I'm done posting in the thread as I've said all I really wanted to say (people can PM me, of course), but I encourage everyone to delve into this issue. It's very rewarding and fascinating. The complex relationship between science and religion and the controversies involved really never "get old" (in my opinion). There's just a lot of exciting debate.

For anyone that wants to think more about this, I'll recommend a starting website:

Talk Origins

Cheers,

Jake
 
Joined
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Also, just as a sidenote:

Though I'm not Christian, I wager most people who've contributed to this thread are. Since I've talked about how a lot of Christians combine evolutionary theory and their religion, this FAQ is quite good about the issue:

Combining Christianity & Evolution

Kudos,

Jake
 

Wesley

God must have an interesting sense of humor
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Ok. Anywho, For those who do say that the "week" took millions of years. There is a flaw in that. Now to reproduce a plant needs to make "food" for itself and food for makking seed. This is obtained through photosynthisis. To photosynithisize the plant needs sun light. On the "third day"(three million years) plants that bear seed were created. On the "fourth day"(one million years after plants were created) "And God said, 'Let there be lights in the expanse of sky to seperate the day from night...' Genesis 1:14a, "God made two great lights- the greater light to govern the day"(the sun)"and the lesser night to govern the night."(the moon)"He also made the stars." Genesis 1:16. There is no possible way for a plant to survive a million years without sun light.

respectfully
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,
Wes
 
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(Wesley @ July 23 2003,8:13)There is no possible way for a plant to survive a million years without sun light.

respectfully
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,
Wes
Wes,
you are applying the "biblical rules" to those who dont believe in the Bible!
If one believes the entire "week" is metaphorically really millions of years, one does not have to believe the sun "switched on" at the 4 million year mark..or whenever.
that would be taking Genesis literally, which we are not doing..
therefore we dont have to take the "let there be light" timeline literally either..

the solution to the photosythhesis problem is amazingly simple.
The sun has existed as long as the Earth.
when the first life appeared on Earth, sunlight was already there.
problem solved.
Scot
 
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The Bible has always confused me
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? How can one day plants be created next day this and that get created? God may have created life but I think life started out as single-celled organisims. Through time single celled organisisms developed into more complicated life forms...I am the kind of person that needs proof and through many years things may have been lost through translation. Although I do believe in God, I think he created everyone to be different even if people have different beliefs on how things where created.

My other BIG questions is why do so many people fight/kill over different beliefs? I do not think that was God's purpose (in know way do I speak for God) to see people fight and kill others.

Even though I am a Christian I love going to different churches and meeting new people. I also have endless discussions with freinds on religion and evolution which I think is great.
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I just have to many questions...As my grandma says "One day at a time, dear sweet Jesus!".
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This is one BIG topic!

Travis
 
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Just a thought. But if you consider God created everything then you can also say that God created time and thus controlled it at his will. That being he could very well have the span of millions of years in one day and the span of two minutes in another (kind of like watching a video of a plant blossoming recorded in time elapse so you can watch it grow bloom and die in the span of 30 seconds, or slow motion video...) Thus you can have millions of years occur in the span of a week. Time wouldn't have to be linear for the one that creates the universe.
 
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Belfrie,
excellent point!
who can say the Genesis "week" is the exact same time span as a "modern week"??
saying it must be the same as a week now is imposing more rules on God! God does not have to do what we say!
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travis,
what is going on in that new avatar??
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what is being kicked?
and what does the word say? I cant make it out, it looks like "OWNED"..

Scot
 
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Skeptical about creationism?

Unconvinced that evolution is the answer?

Then  friend,you ought to read Zachariah Sitchin's  The Earth Chronicles vols. 1-6 ... with an open mind!



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BigCarnivourKid

It's been one of dem days
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(scottychaos @ July 24 2003,07:37)travis,
what is going on in that new avatar??
wow.gif

what is being kicked?
and what does the word say? I cant make it out, it looks like "OWNED"..
Scott, right click>properties on his icon, then copy and paste the URL in the address bar and press enter. *You will se a larger picture of Travis's icon.
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alien.gif
 
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(BigCarnivourKid @ July 24 2003,2:30)
(scottychaos @ July 24 2003,07:37)travis,
what is going on in that new avatar??
wow.gif

what is being kicked?
and what does the word say? I cant make it out, it looks like "OWNED"..
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Scott, right click>properties on his icon, then copy and paste the URL in the address bar and press enter. *You will se a larger picture of Travis's icon.
wow.gif


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thats really bizzare!
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but..what does "owned" mean in relation to the movie?
I dont get it..
 
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(scottychaos @ July 24 2003,06:37)travis,
what is going on in that new avatar??
wow.gif

what is being kicked?
and what does the word say? I cant make it out, it looks like "OWNED"..

Scot
<span id='postcolor'>
owned.gif

kinda scary... who would kick a small child like that???
 
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Well here is my guess... In any sport or game, when someone "owns" another, they get a flawless victory over the other team. In the avater the gradma gets a victory over the child!
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iiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiTOTAL OWNAGE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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well, its obviously not real..
someone somewhere thought it would be funny I guess,
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and created the little video..
seeing it "out of context" we have no clue what it is about!


but since im sure there was a not a real child kicked into the air, it doesnt concern me much!
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Wes,
The Genesis text chapter 1 was written as a poem to remember the Sabbath, it is not a scientific document. Nowhere in the Bible does it say a literal interpretation is required, otherwise how would literally interpret a third of all the stars falling to earth like in Revelation?

A good christian book to read is "creation and evoltution, the facts and the fallacies" by Alan Hayward
 
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I must point out here that there are differences between prophesies and history.  *this next statement is not meant to be inflammatory, just to get some thoughts* Who are you to interpret God's account of Genesis into a poem of Sabbath?  Where does it say this in the Bible? I want a reference, not an inflection.  I'll make my point with 2 Tim 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God."  As for prophesy, there can be a literal meaning and a figurative meaning.  Your verse from Revelation 12:4 is referring to the original rebellion of Satan, when he took 1/3 of the angels with him, to be demons.

A good book to read, is the Bible  
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SF
 
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(SnowyFalcon @ July 24 2003,11:54)*I'll make my point with 2 Tim 3:16, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." *
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Hi,

Notice, it says "inspiration of God" and not direct, literal, dictation from God's mouth to some human's ear. Inspiration is hardly the word one would choose if one wanted what was said to be taken as literal fact. Inspiration focuses on a state of being and the imagination (poetry) and not the facts and figures of everyday reality.

Bobby
 
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A better translation says 'God breathed'.  This is a more literal translation than the other one that I used previously. I agree that 'inspiration' can be taken to mean other things such as poetry, but it also has a meaning of God taking a direct part in the formation of it.  I don't have the time to get drawn back into a debate though, so this is really my last post!! LOL!!!


SF
 
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Well my avator is off. It was really not all that funny...at first it was but it lost its flavor. I will go back to my old avator
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. Also the file was to big to load.

Travis
 
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