What's new

Venus-flytrap

Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Messages
3,928
Location
Central Coast of California
I said that to LAT because he made a rude and offending comment to caps
quote from lat:
"I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your Bible, your whatever is the only true way to get to God."
That is why i said its caps's life and he can think what he wants, same with everyone.
How would you like it if i said this to you:
"I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your evolutionist book, your whatever is the only true way to get to God."
It just doens't really make sence
confused.gif
sooo there was no point in lat to say it
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
2,968
Location
Western New York, USA
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (cephalotus88 @ July 22 2003,1:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">people, people  
confused.gif
,

Is this topic becoming an argument about religion? We all have different ideas about faith, etc, so try to chill on this. Its great to see people are interested in religion, etc., but if this leads to put downs or other wrong ideals, it won't seem nice.

Thank you-Zach
smile.gif
[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Zach,
where you been?
its been an arguement about religion for days!
biggrin.gif
wink.gif
rolleyes.gif


Im impressed that everyone here *mostly* kept their cool..
yes there were a few moments where things started to get "sticky"..(including from me! I admit it..)
but overall everyone respected everyone else's opinion, and the thread never actually "crossed the line" to the point where it needed to be locked! (or someone banned&#33
wink.gif


well done everyone!
smile.gif


Scot
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Messages
3,928
Location
Central Coast of California
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Capslock @ July 22 2003,11:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Spec,

I believe you misunderstood what Scot posted a few posts ago. Your charge that there was no point in saying what he said was probably the result of the misunderstanding. Scot was re-affirming everyone's rights to their own beliefs, which was NOT likely to cause argument. I suspect you read it the other way around.

In any case, it reads to me like a simple misunderstanding.

Capslock[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
oops, I see now... i guess i read it wrong...
rolleyes.gif
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
2,968
Location
Western New York, USA
Spec,
if you said to me ""I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your evolutionist book, your whatever is the only true way to get to God."

I would agree with you! that would be unfair..
and you are also saying that would be unfair arent you?
so arent you agreeing with LAT then?!

maybe im not understanding you now!
wink.gif


well, I think we ALL agree that its unfair for anyone to claim they know the absolute truth, and that anyone who disagrees with their version of the truth is automatically wrong..
so lets just leave it at that!
rolleyes.gif


Scot
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Messages
3,928
Location
Central Coast of California
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scottychaos @ July 22 2003,11:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Spec,
if you said to me ""I think it is really unfair to believe that your religion, your evolutionist book, your whatever is the only true way to get to God."

I would agree with you! that would be unfair..
and you are also saying that would be unfair arent you?
so arent you agreeing with LAT then?!

maybe im not understanding you now!
wink.gif


well, I think we ALL agree that its unfair for anyone to claim they know the absolute truth, and that anyone who disagrees with their version of the truth is automatically wrong..
so lets just leave it at that!
rolleyes.gif


Scot[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
OK I'm lost now too...
rolleyes.gif
Yes i think you misunderstood me too...

yes lets just leave it at that... I'mt oo lost to get back on track now...
confused.gif
rolleyes.gif
 
Joined
May 7, 2003
Messages
257
I'm Sorry I was not dissing Caplock at all. I think he/or she has a very good head on his/her shoulder.

Spec, I think you saw an insult where there was none, in the least.
confused.gif


So, I'm Sorry for stepping on any toes. I do not mean to stir up any bad blood at all. Just love that you are free to believe anything you want, that you can live anyway you want, don't impose your beliefs on anyone else, and love your VFT that's all I really wanted to get across.
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
2,968
Location
Western New York, USA
hmmm..very interesting! Spec, I think I figured out what we both are saying!
tounge.gif


Imagine there is a PERSON! any person at all..
doesnt matter exactly who it is.
(im using PERSON instead of Capslock becuse its not clear to me that capslock even said that at all! so im just making up a person)
the Person says:

"My religion is the only true path to God."

Is this a fair statement??

(Scot's view) No, it isnt. the PERSON has no right to say that!
because he doesent absolutely know it is true. he is saying ALL other religions are wrong, and only his is correct..pretty arrogant! so Scot views it as "wrong" and "not a fair statement"

(Spec's view) the PERSON has every right to say and think that! because he can hold any opinion about religion he wants to! so there is nothing wrong with saying that at all..
(which, oddly, I also agree with)

Is that it??
biggrin.gif


but Spec, if the PERSON can hold any view he wants...why cant LAT?
the PERSON's statement is very offensive to many people, myself included..but I agree he can think that if he wants to..
BUT! LAT can also think the person is WRONG!
both people have the right to think the other person is wrong..
so you cant pick-and-choose and say "this person has the right to think his religion is the only correct religion..but LAT does NOT have the right to disagree..disagreeing will be considered rude"

nope, it has to go both ways..personally I find the PERSON's statement FAR more offensive that LAT's!

now, to get back to confusion again, do I have the right to say you are wrong for disagreeing with LAT and thinking he was rude?
no..(and yes)
but were you wrong?
yes, from my view only..but is my opinion on this matter "the truth"?
nope..
arent you entitled to think LAT was rude?
yep.
was he?
according to me, no.
according to you?
yes.
am I being rude to you? (spec)
to me, not at all..
to you? maybe..
does ANY of it really matter?
nope.
so who really said ANYTHING wrong at all in this entire thread??
no one..


ok good..im confused again..(not really&#33
wink.gif

tounge.gif


Scot
 
Joined
May 11, 2003
Messages
1,265
*shakes head in dizzy confusion over last post*  
tounge.gif
 
biggrin.gif
 
alien.gif


Edit: Agrees with next post (which is nice and simple)!!
tounge.gif
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Messages
10
I haven't read all of this thread, but I hope I can contribute something of value here--I've stuided the history of evolution and philosophy of religion at the university level.

Instead of responding to arguments here, I think it is important to clarity a few concepts. First, I do not believe in any sort of god, but it is ridiculous to say the following:

1.) By random mutation and natural selection, organisms have evolved on earth over billions of years.
2.) Therefore, god does not exist.

This is a silly, flawed argument!

People that harp evolution as a subsitute for religion have no idea how silly this looks. If evolutionary theory is true (which it is) then biblical creation in a week is false (given, of course, a literal interpretation of the bible).

I've had countless long, frustrating arguments about religion with many people. It's like politics. A few things to keep in mind:

Evolution only poses a threat to fundamentalists. Many Christians say that god can "guide" evolution, or that the week of creation is metaphorical.

Learn some philosophy--it is very rewarding. Understand the basic arguments *for* god--the ontological, cosmological, and design arguments. Know the powerhouse argument against the concept of god--the problem of evil.

The main reason for posting this is that I've seen the argument "Well Christianity worked before Darwin came along..." a thousand times, and it's emphatically wrong every time I see it. Christianity's critics come in the form of philosophy (same with criticism for Hindu and Islam and Zoroastrian and and so on). I've had friends who are professors of Zoology that think Darwin crushed religion. It's such a common mistake that I felt a need to clarify. If anything, Darwinism cast a seed of doubt about religion, but for many christians the science doesn't pose a "threat."

Jake
 

Wesley

God must have an interesting sense of humor
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
1,561
Location
Richmond, VA
Wow. I know this is off the point but, I think this is the longest topic in these forums.
biggrin.gif


Back to the point, I do agree with AM. Let's keep it freindly.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Evolution only poses a threat to fundamentalists. Many Christians say that god can "guide" evolution, or that the week of creation is metaphorical.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

God does not guide evolution. Either He created everything or nothing. I personally believe that He created everything.

Also when you said, </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">or that the week of creation is metaphorical.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'> What did you mean by that? Just a question. And also if a "Christian" says that God guides evolution; they are not a true Christian. A true Christian believes God created EVERYTHING. You are either Christian or not, you can't be both.

Wes
biggrin.gif
 
Joined
Apr 9, 2003
Messages
10
Wes--

A lot of liberal Christians believe that God guides evolution or that the "week" of creation is a metaphor for billions of years of evolution. I didn't just "make this up," I cite it from *years* of conversation with Christians. If you think that a god created everything, that's fine. But not every Christian, as evidenced by this thread, is going to agree. Keep in mind the different people have different ideas of what constitutes a Christian. This is why there are different sects of Christianity.

Jake
 
Joined
Aug 27, 2001
Messages
2,968
Location
Western New York, USA
Jake,
excellent points! well said..
If even Christians cant agree among themselves what the "absolute truth" is, you can see why I might doubt the opinion (stated as Fact) of any ONE specific person!
biggrin.gif


FinnishKid,
awesome quote! I love it..who said that?

"There is only one religion, though there are a hundred versions of it."
-George Bernard Shaw
 
Joined
Sep 24, 2002
Messages
3,928
Location
Central Coast of California
</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scottychaos @ July 22 2003,11:51)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">(Spec's view) the PERSON has every right to say and think that! because he can hold any opinion about religion he wants to! so there is nothing wrong with saying that at all..
(which, oddly, I also agree with)

Is that it??
biggrin.gif


but Spec, if the PERSON can hold any view he wants...why cant LAT?[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
"(Spec's view) the PERSON has every right to say and think that! because he can hold any opinion about religion he wants to! so there is nothing wrong with saying that at all..
(which, oddly, I also agree with)"
that's it
biggrin.gif


"but Spec, if the PERSON can hold any view he wants...why cant LAT?"
I veiwed it wrong, and thought it was an offensive comment to caps... and i read it wrong
confused.gif
(i already said that lol
rolleyes.gif
)

to the other stuff you were saying.... I'm lost
rolleyes.gif
 
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Messages
5,290
Location
Oswego, New York, U.S.A.
Well folks, this gets sent to the Guiness Book as the longest running CIVIL debate on the subject of creationism vs evolution exant on the Web!! Usually by now the topic would have crashed into senseless bickering and name calling. I think you all may take this as a compliment as to the quality of your own rationality.

I believe that Reality is plastic, and any generalizations made about it are false, including this one. The best we can do in the face of contrary beliefs is to keep an open mind, and afford each other the respect that we demand ourselves.

This thread has been remarkable for the painstaking dedication to this kind of respect each of you has demonstrated towards the others, and I extend my compliments to all involved.
 

Wesley

God must have an interesting sense of humor
Joined
Aug 1, 2002
Messages
1,561
Location
Richmond, VA
Jake,

 Two questions.  This is common sense.  Can a plant photosynthisize(sp?) without out sun light?  And can a plant live without it?  Now remember the "week" of creation was a </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">metaphor for billions of years of evolution. I didn't just "make this up," [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>.
 
Top