Some wishes for the new year.

[Joachim Danz]

Hi,

I'm already thinking of posting a thread like this one for some months by now and finally I decided to post it. If you do feel offended by my post - Yes, it is nothing I like to do, but sadly you are propably right in this feeling.

After reading nearly every post in the Nepenthes forum of PFT for about one year now, I lately did realize, that my behaviour has changed in the last months: I have built a list of members in my head, whose posts I do not read any more or do only read very occassionally.

As I know from my experience, this is my first step in leaving a forum like this one. A place which I do like very much, because it is ideal for sharing and getting useful informations in a very short amount of time. It is not my style to leave without trying to do something against things I do dislike, so here goes a list of wishes I do have for the future:

- Only do answer questions where you really do know the answer. If you are not absolutely sure - be silent or mark your answer as a guess!

- Do only post facts from your personal experience! I.e. giving tips on plants you never did grow is just plain silly.

- Supplying informations you got from a book or another source is OK, but you do do have to cite the source where you got this information from! There is a horrible amount of wrong information around and by repeating, these wrong informations won't get true.

- Don't exaggerate. Others reading your posts will realize this sooner or later and won't trust you any more.

- Do read a thread thoroughly before posting an answer!

- If you don't have to add something useful to a thread please don't post!

- If you made an error and you do realize it, be nice and do correct it. We all do make errors from time to time, so this is good style.

- Please do write scientific names right!


I know it is a nice feeling to act like an expert and give tips on difficult questions - but getting an expert for these plants does take many years and lots of good and even more important bad experiences from which you do have to learn. So don't be frustrated, when you're only able to help out on very few questions here in the forum. After four years of growing these plants and reading every information I could get, I'm still only a beginner like most of you.

As you might know I am from Germany and over here we do have a very clear opinion on people not acting according to the points given above. It might be your american style - I don't know - but from my German point of view I'm really annoyed be some of the postings I did read here over the last year.

In hope of a better future...

Joachim

 

[arie]

Joachim
I agree with every word ypu put on your wishes
as I had act the same way for the last few months
hope your wishes and as I say they are main too come true
this new year.
Arie

 

[neps]

I heartily agree with Joachim, and admire him for his
courage in saying something that I, and possibly several other
members, have been thinking.

Like him, I do not wish to be critical of anyone. I sincerely
appreciate this forum, and am grateful for the participation
of others. Moreoever, as in any community, there are those
of greater and of lesser experience. However, it is indeed tiresome to
frequently read posts of no substance, which contribute
nothing to the case under discussion, or to encounter those who
ceaselessly parrot information gleaned merely from reading,
rather than from experience.

While it is not my intent to discourage anyone from posting a
question, or from sharing his thoughts, I, too, hope that
henceforth members will exercise a bit more thought before
posting. For example, if one's question is basic, undertake
a search to find the answer before asking it. And, perhaps
most importantly, please communicate as clearly as possible.
Remember: the only representation one has in this medium is
what one writes, and therefore, spelling and grammer are
important!

Finally, losing people like Joachim will only diminish this
environment for everyone. I, for one, have always enjoyed
his contributions, and hope that he will not leave!

 

[FlytrapGurl]

I totally agree and everyone, including me, will miss you very much.

 

[GEORGE-CP]

i would like to state that i will hate to see you leave. knowing there is the german forum that u are in and helped me with the regerstration there but, reading it is very hard for me since i don't know german what so ever except for when i translate it from the computer.

it is always a pleasure to see you, neps, arie, tony, rob, andreas, and a few others post in the forum. for that is where i go to gain knowledge from your years of experance growing the plants and you all are highly respected in my point of view.

yes, most of the post are from lack of research from the web or not have the books in hand to look threw for knowledge to grow the plants. also some of the books i have don't give all the requirments that the plants need then i just go to some web pages to check out the requirements they need to grow.

hoping you don't leave cause you will be missed and wish to see you all post alot more

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Joachim,
To see you leave here would/will be a great loss. Losing a great nepenthes grower from this forum will make it that much less active. So leave if you must, but stay if you can. Go with what you think is right and what you have made up in your own mind. And to think you just joined a few days or weeks ago and already you have picked up on your decisions. We'll all miss you if you decide to depart.

Regards, Dustin.

 

[fatboy]

Hi Joachim

I agree with your comments and I think your post was well put, especially considering English is not your native language. I speak two languages besides English however I don't think I write either of them as fluently as you write English.

I think that the German way of looking at things is quite different to my own, you guys are much more precise and technical (in general) and I always enjoy reading the different style/ point of view. It would be sad to see the forum lose some of it's diversity which is what will happen if you decide to leave.

Cheers, Troy.

 

[Tim]

I agree with Fatboy. I can write in 6 languages, and I greatly admire the German people. But at the same time, I believe older people have a responsiblity to younger people, and the best way is not to ignore them.

Frankly, I think that your attitude is somewhat snobish, but I respect your opinion, and I thank you for what you have taught me.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

After all we ARE a big happy CP loving group of people.

And for that reason I think no one should leave UNLESS another member has hurt/discriminated/etc to the other member. That would be the exception in my view. Otherwise you should stay and ignore the posts that displease you.

 

[The Griffin]

Joachim,

I'm right there with you. I don't think that you being from Germany has anything to do with it. I have not been with this forum very long, but I have noticed a lot of posts that are not very serious, and not very informative, in just that short time. Ironically, I am about as silly a person as can be, but I want to try and help people or learn things when I come to the forum.

Regards,

Joe

 

[pthiel]

Joachim,

Thanks for the post and well written reasons behind it. I have noticed that the experienced growers have been posting fewer and fewer responses lately and this has hurt the forum greatly. Hopefully your post will help to stop the frivolous posting and correct some of the errors being posted. I do not believe there is anyone who knows all there is to know about cultivating these plants, especially under the many different conditions we live in. Every experienced bit of information is helpful.

Thanks again and if you do leave the forums, please keep in touch.

Cheers,

 

[fatboy]

Grifin I mentioned the German thing and I didn't say it had anything to do with Joachim's feelings about the forum, I mentioned it:
1. in relation to Joachim's English ability
2. I think the forum would be boring if it were full of people from one country. The plants that are available, the growing conditions and the way people look at things all varies with each country and the variation is part of what makes this forum interesting.

Cheers, Troy.

 

[mindmaze128]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (nepenthes gracilis @ Dec. 28 2002, 8:45 )</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And to think you just joined a few days or weeks ago and already you have picked up on your decisions.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
FYI

      Name       |     Group      |     Joined       |    Posts
----------------------------------------------------------
                      |                    |                     |  
Joachim           |  Members    |  Dec. 2001    |   210      
Joachim Danz  |   Members   |   Dec. 2002   |   5

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Woa, hold a a sec nelly! Are we talking to the original Joachim?

I am really confused now....

 

[greenhouse1]

I concur with Joachim and feel that his guidelines should apply to all of the specific plant topics. If anyone wants to just chitchat he or she can post in the General Discussion part of the forums. That is the area where the less serious conversations can take place. I'm not a professional grower but if I look for help with a specific plant I'd like to see answers that address the issues and know the source of the answer or advice.
Thank you Joachim for your knowledge and I hope you remain an active part of these forums.

 

[Martin]

@n.g. : Joachim = Joachim Danz

For us (Germans) it is some kind of "respect" to a forum to subscribe with your full name. This will show other people who you are and that you stand behind your opinion.
You will seldom use your full name in a new forum, but at pft it is imposible to change your username.

Martin (Reiner)

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

Thank you for clarifying that Martin. I was a bit puzzled between the Joachim I know and Joachim Nerz.

 

[Kate]

Joachim, I must say I agree with you about not reading some posts, which I suppose is a tad biggoted of me since I suspect that I may be one that is frequently ignored by others.

Please stay, we would miss your contribution.

 

[Parasuco]

Ditto everything Maeham said for me... Just didn't know how to word it...

 

[Joachim Danz]

Hi,

this thread has turned in a direction I didn't want it to. I won't make a decision on leaving this forum or not. What has started in my head is a slow process, which may result in this. I did mention this point to show you I'm very serious about the points I did try to make.

Looking at the recent postings of Arie for example I'm afraid he is already some steps ahead in a similar process. Sadly it does not make a difference at all, if someone only did stop posting his very valuable input or if he has left already.

In my opinion a forum like this is what the active members do make out of it. I won't criticise or condemn those who do post silly things, it is totally up to the other members (including me) to guide them in the right direction. If we (I) don't do it, we (I) do have to accept the developements which take place. And keep in mind that a forum is not only a place to answer questions - an equal important part is to start interesting threads for others!

I do participate here due to the fun I have in learning new things from other memberes and in sharing my knowledge where it might be useful. But in sharing my knowledge I do expect that the ones I do share it with, try to understand my postings and try to learn from it where possible. But what should I think for example, when reading through postings, where the author is not able to follow the simplest rule of writing scientific plant names correct in lower and upper cases - against better knowledge of course?

Yes, you are allowed to call me snobby or arrogant, but that is the way I do think of it. Sorry.

Joachim