Rising intolerance and condesention

[Kate]

This is going to sound a bit strange comming from me, since on a few occasions I have been rather outspoken in my opinions and dissagreements, however I do think it needs to be said.

I haven't been posting much lately, and the reason for this is that everyday there are more and more posts that leave me with a sour feeling.

Everyday I see more people not only disagreeing (which is a good thing) but also calling down those they disagree with (which is bad).

Just today I was reading a post (names etc. will not be mentioned) where a respondant was bringing anothers morals into question, over a difference in personal taste.

I have seen others where indivuduals were called liars (in cleverly veiled terminology) by a person that was not present at the incident in question.

I feel these situations and others like them are detrimental to the forums.

Differences of opinion are wonderfull things, they are part of what helps us learn and grow as people and even serve to help us form our own opinions, weither we agree with the opinions stated or not.

I guess what I am trying to say is try to keep it friendly, everyone is entiled to his or her own beliefs and is deserving of respect weither you agree or not.

Now, I am no saint, nor have I ever claimed to be, and there will be a few of you out there who will remind me of the times when I was guilty of exactly what I have just been denouncing. Let me save you the trouble, I remember them well and have been striving to avoid the situations that I know are likely to bring about that behaviour again.

Okay... I can practically see the flames commming already, so I will leave it at that.

Enjoy all, and goodluck with your plants.

 

[RamPuppy]

I don't think anything you have written is flame worthy, praise worthy yes!

Our community is growing, and with that, comes a greater range of people and unfortunately, friction between personalities.

What we all need to remember, is that it is ok to disagree, it is ok for people to have different opinions than you, and it is ok, in fact, great, when people like that come together and form a strong, diverse community.

I can tell you that in the last couple of months there has been a lot more moderator activity... for a while there, Mods were just your every day guy that had a few special powers to help out around the forums, now, more and more they have to wear their moderator hats, and I don't think any of us like it. It does seem to be calming down now, hopefully the trend will continue.

A note... Sometimes Moderators have to say things in public to people that they don't like, and by they, I mean both the mod, and the recipient. Sometimes what someone does isn't worthy of deletion, or it just isn't that bad, or perhaps someone has the facts wrong, sometimes someone just misinterprets something, who knows, heck, I am guilty of misinterpretation! But regardless, sometimes the Mods have to step in, and the language they use while polite and professional, is a little hard for some people to take, it's not conversational, it's a 'get the point' type of talk. This is not meant to be insulting or deragatory, or to make the mod feel superior to the recipient, it is simply the mod doing their job.

When that happens people, please don't take it as a 'changing flavour' of the boards. The same rules, be nice, still apply every hour of every day, and I think we all should, and do make our best effort.

Thanks!

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

There are always going to be disagreements. As long as they are polite and civil there should be no problems: this is the purpose of dialouge.

In NO instances will inpolite behavior or rude comments be tolerated. We discuss things here, we do not argue. This is not a grey area, and intervention by Mods will be direct, and there will be no debate or leeway on this issue.

A perennial problem comes from offering inaccurate advice. This IS a grey area, you see - mods are human too, and their information may be as incorrect as anyone elses, or may not apply in specific instances. As a general rule, all of us are vetrans in the CP world, and when advice is offered with the implication of expertise we know it. This is where we must step in. It is not pleasant to have to tell someone "Sorry, you are wrong" but these events do arise and will continue to arise. In these instances, it is best to simply defer to the Moderator. Typically we never make comments like "Never do that" but we will caution out members that such information is in contradiction to proven experience.

As I have stated before, experience may reaffirm false information. A good example is in D'Amatos book where he states D. regia can't come from leaf cuttings. This is not true, but now we have a whole new generation spreading this piece of false information. You might decide to try it anyway, and bang!: your attempt fails. So, you agree with D'Amato, and will be ready to offer that bit of information to someone asking if it is possible to do this. You read it wasn't possible, and you tested that hypothesis. You offer your advice "No, it is not possible" BUT you see, it is!

A little humility when offering cultivation advice is always called for. Prefaces like "In my experience" or "Under my conditions" will go a long way in forestalling mod intervention.

What we DO NOT like is for people to make decisions regarding cultivation advice based on limited experience and uncontrolled experiments, and then offer such to our members from a stance of "expertise". This is the hardest area to deal with, and the most sensitive: for people offering this sort of "help" always believe it is for the good of others - that's why it is offered. To have such help spurned will always create some hard feelings, but spurned it will be if it does not apply to the majority.

Any specific instances of rudeness, vulgarity, or inpolite behavior needs to be brought to the attention of the mods when it happens - we can't be everywhere all the time. I am not aware of these instances you mentioned, but a PM to me would have me looking at the issue. Please feel free to bring these matters to my attention as they arise. This includes any percieved rudeness on the part of Admin. or Mods. Once we are made privately aware of these issues, we can examine them and act accordingly.

As for the other problem, all I can offer is this. If a person can't cite additional references to back pet theories, then they should offer them as the speculation that they are, not as facts. Mods are largely aware of all the facts regarding CP culture and will act to support pre-established good advice. Cp cultivation has a long tradition, and most of us are well versed in it. Members are on dangerous grounds if they are using the words "always" and "never" and if they do use these words, they should be prepared to back them up with hard facts if asked to cite their references. Unfortunately, limited experience is NOT acceptable in these instances whether based on successes or failures as a rationale for giving sound advice. In general such matters have been explored long ago, and 9 times out of 10 they will apply to you and your conditions.

Also, let it be said that experimentation is ALWAYS to be encouraged, but everyones growing conditions are different. Speculation is not a crime, it's FUN, but should never be advanced as something true in all cases, and advice should never be based on limited personal experiments alone. Isolated instances of success and failure cannot be applied to general CP culture, and often we must go for the most common denominator.

In such instances it is proper that respect be given to the Moderators, and their decisions. Most "issues" are usually discussed in the Moderator Forum when they occurr: individual decisions may be personally affected, and we always hash out sensitive topics amongst ourselves. This prevents arbitrary or personal abuse of our "Powers".

I have seen many discussion boards like this, and I have to say the atmosphere here is the nicest I have ever experienced. I deeply regret your "sour" experiences, but believe me, they are not all that common here. So, please continue to post and say what you will, and be assured that the Mods will always act in your best interests.

 

[RamPuppy]

I couldn't agree more.

And to not put to fine a point on it...

Yes, Admins (Me) and Mods have just as much a responsibility to be polite as everyone else, so if you have a problem with one of us, take it up with another mod, or me.

A note of caution though, don't mistake frank honesty as being rude, and don't get your feelings hurt and retaliate at a moderator if you feel you have been wronged.

We Mods keep each other informed in a private area of the forums, that is also where we hash things out if we think one of us is in the wrong. So, let us know what your feeling, and we will discuss it and get it worked out to the best of our ability.

 

[Kate]

Thanks for the support guys.

I wasn't involved in any of the incidences I related, just read them, and was left with a distinctly uncomfortable feeling.

Now, as Tamlin said, sometimes these things are just misunderstandings. For exactly that reason I didn't want to report anything to the Mods, yet. I thought that maybe a gentle reminder from a member might help and save you guys the trouble if it was a misunderstanding.

Sometimes people aren't aware of how they are sounding to others and that may have been part of what I was seeing.

Thanks again for the support. This is a wonderful community and I am sure that everyone would like to keep it that way. If we all remember to keep it polite and respectful it will remain a wonderful community.

 

[Pyro]

Maehem, (and everyone else too)

Don't hesitate to bring anything to a Mod, even if it does turn out to be a misunderstanding it lets us know to keep our eyes on something that might be a problem. As Mods we are here to look after the site and the members

 

[FlytrapGurl]

This should be pinned!