Raccoons

[Gawd_oOo]

Give your cat an egg once see what happens.
But I can change my statement abit and talk about the flightless baby birds. If the eggs are taken, the adult birds may try and lay more if enough time is left in their breeding season, once the eggs have hatched and the young are killed few bird species will make another attempt at reproducing that season. Ofcourse that doesn't include the bunnies of the bird world such as sparrows/starlings etc.

Cats With Bells on Their Collars Do Kill Birds: Studies have shown that bells on collars are not effective in preventing cats from killing birds or other wildlife. Birds do not necessarily associate the sound of a bell with danger, and cats with bells can learn to silently stalk their prey. Bells offer no protection for helpless nestlings and fledglings - - - From the same study done by the University of Wisconsin

 

[LauraZ5]

Cats are highly evolved killing machines and their rights end at the property lines of those who own them although trying to explain this to owners can be an exercise in futility. I too have lost my share of birds to indoor/outdoor house cats and feral cats. I have also lost more than a few chipmunks, frogs, and rabbits as well as an occasional snake. I use a HavAHart trap. I then call my Village and they send out animal control to pick up the feral animal. Most local governments are well aware of the damage stray/feral cats do to the environment and the health risks they pose so most have programs in place to address the situation in my area. If where one lives does not have such a program, check with your County. Our Village encourages us to help control the ferals and picks up the tab for having them humanely destroyed. I lost more than my fair share of BlueJays last year to outdoor cats. Blue Jays are an endangered species around here. Many of our native birds have enough competition out there what with West Niles Virus and all taking its toll as well as European Starlings and English House Sparrows. Why didn't people just spay and neuter all cats or at the very least keep them inside where they would have been incapable of reproducing until they were fixed? I realize the greatest threat to songbirds and small mammals is from outdoor cats regardless of whether they are stray or feral. It’s the dump offs in my area that get to me after a while. For some reason, people get kittens and when they start peeing on their precious Persian rug... the owners decide it is time to take a drive to the Country. I am told all farmers want mousers. I know a lot of farmers and I can't think of one who wants somebody else's house pi**er or house sprayer destroying animal feed. The other issue is that many people get their kittens/cats for free and are unwilling to invest in a trip to a vet to see if there is a biological basis to the urination problem such as cystitis or a urinary tract infection. It is difficult to combat this mindset.

As a parent, this hit home hard and this is why I now trap all ferals and stray cats-
http://www.messybeast.com/zoonoses.htm

Quite frankly, I don’t want any cats hanging around my property. That link only discusses diseases communicable to humans however there are many nasty diseases they can and have passed to my indoor only cats and the mutated form of distemper for which there is no vaccine comes to mind about a year and a half ago. I do not want ferals and strays infecting my indoor only cats because they hang around my house when I open the windows in spring and fall, I do not want them urinating and defecating in the sand box out back that my kids play in, I don’t want them doing their thing in my bog, or marking their territory by spraying on the frames to my screens to show my indoor only cats who is boss, and I certainly don’t want them hanging out underneath my birdfeeders as if they are nice prepackaged McDonald’s KittyMeals. Unfortunately, most of the people in my neighborhood aren’t on large enough properties that their cats stay put. We’re talking mostly 2 acre parcels here and their cats can and do frequent my property. Combine these with the ferals and the strays and that’s a lot of cats doing a lot of damage.

Bells on collars do not work much longer than the first week or so. The use of same on cats to warn wildlife has recently been studied. It was documented that in a very short period of time, the average wearer of the bells was able to compensate for the annoying existence of the bells attached to the collar and soon learned how to move in a “stealth” mode so as to insure that the bells didn’t tinkle and alert the victim prematurely. Yes, the bells did finally tinkle but that was in the middle of a pounce and it was too late then. Bells on cat collars are a “feel good” product that people who let their cats out can purchase so they can feel as if they are doing their part to protect North American Wildlife. Cats are serial killers. It is tough to think of Fluffy who is curled up by the heat register snoozing away peacefully as being capable of killing.

Another lesser known tidbit, cats that are well fed allegedly kill approximately 5-7x more for sport than their feral counterparts that generally only kill that which they need to survive. The feral cats consume their victims while the well fed strays often do not in favor of toying with the prey until it is dead and then leaving it lay or bringing it home to present to its owner.

TNR (aka Trap, Neuter, Release or formerly Spay, Notch, and Release) is now pretty well documented as not being a viable alternative to those opposed to humanely destroying ferals and may even be in violation of the migratory bird act. Can’t wait for the outcome of that.

Gawd_oOo mentioned English House Sparrows, those are also major serial killers although their victims are predominantly native cavity nesters. Best to save that topic for another day.

 

[Trapper7]

Oh my goodness!That skunk is adorable!!

*Niki*

 

[aprilh]

I have 10 indoor only cats in a 900 sq.ft. house.  Me and the DH have the word "SUCKER" printed on our foreheads, and only animals can see it.  

Windows kill more birds every year than feral and stray cats could ever hope to.  Which is not to say cats belong outside, because they don't.  2 of my 10 cats were born in a house, raised in a house.  The other 8 are rescued ferals or strays.  They are quite happy being indoor only cats. They have each other to play with, and toys, and they wreck my stuff for fun, and they are happy cats. They don't pine to go outside, they are terrified of it.  I wish people would get over their "cats need to go outside to be happy" stuff, because IT IS NOT TRUE.  April

 

[LauraZ5]

Did you ever try putting any suncatchers up on your windows at work? Maybe you could put them on the outside of the windows since you are in a flyway? I could have a few homemade ones for you by next weekend if you are interested. They are plastic so they are very lightweight and tend to stay up on the windows cosiderably longer that the heavy stained glass types. I know those birds crashing into the windows is so incredibly disheartening because they end up quite dead.

 

[aprilh]

I have 10 indoor only cats in a 900 sq.ft. house.  Me and the DH have the word "SUCKER" printed on our foreheads, and only animals can see it.  

Windows kill more birds every year than feral and stray cats could ever hope to.  Which is not to say cats belong outside, because they don't.  2 of my 10 cats were born in a house, raised in a house.  The other 8 are rescued ferals or strays.  They are quite happy being indoor only cats. They don't pine to go outside, they are terrified of it.  I wish people would get over their "cats need to go outside to be happy" stuff, because IT IS NOT TRUE.  April

 

[RamPuppy]

Hmm... well, Our dogs have delivered a couple racoons and a Nutria to our back door when they come over the fence in search of food. (we have gardens within the 1 acre homestead of our ranch (70 acres.)

I personally don't have a problem with anyone shooting them. Sad, but it is not like the racoon is endangered, and it can be a pest.

We also have 2 fixed cats outside, they are lazy as sin. And I am pretty darn sure have never killed a bird in their life (there is a very healthy population of birds on our ranch.) These cats would rather starve than move 10 ft from the back patio.

they are good mousers and leave dead mice on the porch for my mom. "See what I brought you mom?" lol... My mom's springer spaniel is a certified scorpion eater. She thinks they are the best terat ever. (crazy animal) Alex (died of kidney failure last year) was a half australian shep half rot mix that took care of armadillos for us, and his protege, Dusty, a 110 lbs half great dane half lab (super awesome and gorgeous animal) delivers at least 1 armadillo a year, a racoon or two a year, and last month, jack rabbit. No problems here...

thought, that is about to all change... we are putting french guineas on the land this spring, and the dogs are going to have to learn to keep their mouths closed.

 

[Trapper7]

RamPuppy I have a few questions for you:What is a Nutria?And doesn't your mom's dog get sick from eating scorpions?And what are french guineas?Thanks.*Niki*

 

[LauraZ5]

Nutria, UGH!  They are right up there with Norway Rats and House Sparrows. Is there a Nuttria Zapper or similar on the market?  We don't have to contend with Nutria here so I have no experience what so ever controlling, managing, or eradicating them.  Poor you RamPuppy. I hear Nutria are a nightmare. Glad to hear your cats are fixed. I suspect your dogs are going to have difficulty keeping their mouths shut around your guinnea (sp?).  That type of behavior can be very difficult to "unlearn".  Best wishes to you.

 

[RamPuppy]

hey Nikki,

no, she doesn't get sick from eating scorpions, i have seen her eat 3 or four at a time before as well. she must have an iron stomach.


Nutria are nasty, and suprisingly, NOT endimic to our area. Think of them as giant swamp rats, the size of a small dog, or an opossum. It was vicious, and I suspect rabit, we had the dogs all tested after it was killed, they were fine, but it was one scarry sucker. (i was actually around when it was taken down.)


french Guineas are a type of fowl, very similar to a chicken. we are getting them for grashopper control. (sure wish the dumb dog would eat grasshoppers instead of scorpions.) Guineas are good for insect control int he garden as they will not scratch as heavily on the soil and kill roots, and are generally more gentle (or accurate) when picking prey off leaves.

As for training the dogs off them, the guineas will be in a coop and have access only to the gardens this year, which have an 'invisible fence' device setup around them. We had to get this because mom moms spaniel is an escape artist. If they go near the guineas, they will get a shock, though they can still get all around the gardens to protect the guineas and veggies. next year, whent he dogs have lost their 'oh something new to chew on' mentality, we will let them out with the dogs and use the manual shock feater on them whenever they get to close to a bird. shouldn't take more than a weekend to wean them off the birds. they are all suprisingly intelligent dogs. (we have had our share of stupid ones, but this group is the smartest we have had. (in addition to the two listed above, there are my mom's 2 King Standard poodles that she breeds.)

 

[LauraZ5]

Nutria do not carry rabies.

Hey Niki- Regarding Nutria,
"Another example, "the rat that ate Louisiana," as described by Annin, is a large (up to 15 pounds) rodent native to South America that is spreading rapidly throughout the bayous of Louisiana. The nutria was introduced in the early 1900s to develop a fur industry in the state, but they escaped from their cages during a hurricane and rapidly spread through the state. At first, they were heavily trapped and helped support a bustling fur trade which peaked at about 1 million pelts per year, but fashion mores changed and fur was out. Without the control of trapping, the nutria populations exploded, reaching densities of 6,000 individuals per square mile in places. The ravenous rodents can graze down nearly all of the bayou vegetation, leaving just open water. Without the floating vegetation present, habitat is lost and storm damage is worsened. The nutria grow so large that they are virtually immune to predation in the swamp except from the largest alligators. Damage has been so extensive in Lafitte National Park that park managers are poised to permit hunters to kill the nutria. This has led to a pubic outcry by some groups who oppose the hunting of the animals, especially within national parks. With no other viable means of control, however, the Park Service may be in the awkward position of sanctioning hunts to eradicate the animals. In a unique Louisiana twist, some chefs have been experimenting with various nutria dishes, trying to create a market for the meat. While new "haute cuisine" may not be a universal answer to the problem of exotic species, it does highlight the fact that complex problems often require unusual solutions."
From this site- http://cwx.prenhall.com/bookbin....14.html
I would be a proponent of humanely destroying Nutria. Sheesh, they're as bad as fire ants in many ways.

Hi RamPuppy, Sounds as if you have the insects on the ground covered with the French Guinea. Would you consider covering the air?  Creating habitat for bats can greatly reduce flying insect populations. I would be more than happy to provide you with start up information if you were interested. Most bats are either threatend or endangered so any habitat anyone is interested in providing is a very good thing. There are several species indigenous to the area in which you reside.

Armadillos are native to Texas on down. Why would people want to encourage dogs to kill them?  Just curious.

 

[RamPuppy]

hey Laura,

we don't encourage our dogs to kill the armadillos. It is just when the Armadillo's burrow under our fence and pop into the yards, they don't understand that our dogs love to play. Play get's rough, Dillo get's mad, play ends RAPIDLY. We would prefer the dillos not dig under our fence and preserve their lives, unfortunatley, I doubt they will get the memo.

Oh, and I didn't know nutria didn't carry rabies... would have saved a little cash!

Oh, and as for the bats, My dad built 2 'bat houses' into the eaves of their house, there is a population of about 20 or 30 that lives under the eaves, split between both sides of the home. My parents are very concious of controlling pests ecologically, after all, their are several recharge points for the aquifer on our property. Pesticides are a no no.

 

[Trapper7]

Wow bats.I've always wanted one of those Fox Bats,they're pretty cute

Laura,do you have bats too?Thanks for answering all my questions you guys.*Niki*<---With one K

 

[LauraZ5]

Oh, Nutria carry other unpleasantries... just not rabies. Opossums also do not contract rabies. The raccoons on the other hand carry rabies and can contract both feline and canine ickies and nasties and if at all possible, I'd keep those out of your dogs mouths if at all humanly possible. Your dogs are already in a fenced in yard so I truly don't know much more you can do. We have raccoons here and I don't even want my dogs near the areas they frequent. We walk our dogs out on our front lawn to pee and poop leaving the back and side yards for the critters.  Raccoons and dogs shouldn't mix if at all possible, trust me on this one. Most of the dogs around here are house dogs. Not too many that are out all the time or left in fenced in yards. A few people around here put muzzles on their dogs and keep them on leashes and away from the areas that have them but I don't know what one does if the dogs are already in a fenced in yard.

Hey Niki, I've got bats and a host of other critters around here. These don't make the greatest house pet like a skunk so best to keep them outside where they belong. I used to have a badger (outside) but I think he passed on a few years ago. I have been hoping to see him but no go. Sadly, they don't live forever. He was the reason we began walking our dogs out front. Although we have jumbos (Mastiffs and Great Dane), a badger could make short work of either of those in the blink of an eye. Pittbulls wouldn't stand a chance either. A dog would last about... oh um... maybe 5 minutes if it tangled with one of those.

 

[aprilh]

I thought any warm blooded animal could get rabies. For instance, most people here vaccinate their horses, cats and dogs against it.

 

[LauraZ5]

Nope, not any warm blooded animal but many. Yes; horses, cats, and dogs should all get vaccinated.  They are all capable of contracting rabies. They're beginning to attempt to protect raccoons, skunks, as well as coyotes and a few others by adding it to food. That eastern strain of rabies has more than its fair share of people who are panicked. The "doctored" up food is very expensive and I've got my vet out trying to locate a source.

 

[aprilh]

My point is...if a rabid mammal bites you..you have rabies. You are a carrier, because if you bite someone..they will develop rabies. So, ipso facto(to quote Archie Bunker)ANY warm blooded animal can be a carrier of rabies?

am I wrong? Oh, I am so confused. April

 

[LauraZ5]

Oh ouch, the truth hurts. To a certain degree you got me on technicalities.

Basically, carrier was a poor choice of a word and I shouldn't have used it.

From this site-
http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/dvrd/rabies/natural_history/nathist.htm
"Although all species of mammals are susceptible to rabies virus infection, only a few species are important as reservoirs for the disease. In the United States, several distinct rabies virus variants have been identified in terrestrial mammals, including raccoons, skunks, foxes, and coyotes. In addition to these terrestrial reservoirs, several species of insectivorous bats are also reservoirs for rabies."

Raccoons; like some bats, skunks, cats, fox, bobcat, coyote, dogs, and humans can contract the disease. Generally symptoms occur within 12 weeks. If untreated, death will most likely occur.  Once the terrestrial mammal gets sick, it dies within 10 days.  At least this is what studies have found. This period of time after becoming ill and before dieing is when the diseased animal is contagious.

So, can all warm blooded mammals contract a variant of rabies, yup. Let's look at the opossum though as it is classified as a warm blooded mammal. Because of the opossum's very low body temperatures, it would be very very very unlikely that one would contract any variant of rabies. There were several studies out there conducted on opossums. Experiments showed it took from 50,000 to 70,00x more rabies virus to infect an opossum than a dog. These levels of virus just don't seem to exist anywhere but in a lab. Based on this, I would think it would be relatively safe to assume that opossums don't "carry" rabies. Not impossible though. Can't think of even one documented case of an opossum having contracted rabies in their natural habitat. This is most probably why testing of these animals is not generally mandated by Local Rabies Control Authorities as a result of potential exposure.

As far as the Nutria, that would be a rodent. Rodents aren't known to be vectors. Rodents that are infected, generally do not excrete virus in the saliva or if they do, the amounts are so darn low that transmission isn't likely.  Squirrels, armadillos, rats, mice, beaver, shrew, rabbits, prairie dogs, and gophers pretty much all fall into this category. I'm sure I missed a few but you get the idea. Don't let your guard down with rodents however as hantavirus comes to mind and that is nasty.

Wanna talk about raccoon roundworm? Just kidding.

 

[LauraZ5]

This thread jumped all over the place from inception. Several times, members commented they had cats they allowed to go outside. Other members commented they fed feral and stray cats. Please consider contacting animal control about any stray or feral cats you may have frequenting your property. If your health department does not provide services in your area, please consider purchasing a Hav-A-Hart trap and humanely destroying feral cats yourself.  For those who let their cats out, please reconsider letting your cat out because this is the tip of the iceberg.  This will spread to neighboring states, it's only a matter of time. It will also spread from western states to eastern states over the mountains given we humans are so mobile these days-

http://www.kcra.com/news/4892835/detail.html?subid=10100243

Health Dept. Issues Plague Warning For Cats

POSTED: 4:04 pm PDT August 24, 2005
UPDATED: 4:18 pm PDT August 24, 2005

To date in 2005, plague activity has been detected in animals in 11 California counties, including Alpine, Butte, Glenn, Kern, Lassen, Modoc, Monterey, Nevada, Placer, Plumas and Sierra, according to a State Health Department news release.

"People who handle or have close contact with an infected cat risk getting plague," Backer said. "The most important step pet owners can take to protect their cats and themselves from getting plague is to prevent their cats from hunting wild rodents."

Three of the cats were reported in Kern County and one in Placer County. One of the Kern County cats survived, and the others were euthanized.

Plague is a highly infectious bacterial disease that is spread by squirrels, chipmunks and other wild rodents and their fleas. Cats most commonly acquire plague through hunting and consuming infected wild rodents.

Backer urged cat owners to seek veterinary care if their cat becomes sick with symptoms of the disease. Early symptoms include high fever, lethargy, swollen lymph nodes in the neck and breathing difficulty.

Humans and cats can also get plague from the bites of infectious rodent fleas, according to the news release. Since 1977, there have been 23 human plague cases associated with contact with an infected cat in the western United States, including four in California. Two of the Californians died, including an El Dorado County resident in 1980 and a Kern County resident in 1984.

Individuals who have had contact with a cat diagnosed with plague should contact their health care provider, the news release said. In humans, early symptoms of plague include fever, chills, depression and painful swollen lymph nodes in the groin, armpit or neck.

In California, plague-infected animals are most likely to be found in the foothills, mountains and along the coast.

Plague is curable in its early stages with prompt diagnosis and proper treatment but may be fatal if not treated, according to the news release.