My first VFT. Some questions. [PICS]

[Eugene]

Hello,

My name is Eugene and it's my first post here. I was reading threads here and decided to post aswell, this seems to be a very nice and friendly forum. I love plants overall and have a lot of experience in growing them.
Recently my dream came true and i bought myself a VFT, i wanted it really bad when i was a kid. I think that some of you can help me and anwser some question i have about this marvelous plant. I will number them just for the ease of you reffering to them.

1[DORMACY]. I bought the plant from the biggest supplier of plants where i live, it was the only place that had VFTs. The conditions there were really poor for growing VTFs: judging by their lights that were very dim and cold temprature i think that the plant itself already went trough dormacy there, or i am wrong?

This is what it looked like when i first got it:

2[WATERING no1]. While browsing pictures on this forum, i noticed that lots of flower pots with VFTs are watered in a way, that there is a shiny thick layer of water on top of the soil, which basically means lots of water. Should i water my plants with the same kind of way?

3[WATERING no2]. I read that i have to water the plant with distilled water, today i realised that mineral water is not distilled water (stupid me, i was watering it with Evian). Will the plant be okay?

4[SPHAGNUM]. I couldnt find the exact same sphagnum that you guys use, but i found our local varaity of sphagnum in the woods(i live in the Baltics). Is this sphagnum okay for my VFT? (See picture)

This is how my sphagnum looks like:

5[LIGHTS]. I bought a 15 watt MegaMan plantlamp, which is like 75 watt normal lamp . It does not produce heat at all, it's very bright and produces light from only those specters of light, that the plant can "consume". I put it on a timer, and it gives the plant about 14+ hours of light. Will this light be enough for my plant to be healty and growing big red colored traps ?

Lamp specter:

6[FLOWERING]. The plant is already growing the stalk. Is it tall enough to remove it?

The stalk:

7[SECOND PLANT]. I noticed that there are acctualy 2 plants in my fishbowl. One is the big one, and a way smaller one just next to it. Is it okay for them to be growing like that, or do i have to replant the second one?

Summary: The plant has grown and opened a few new traps since it was bought and i think that it is a good sign. Can you please tell me what you think about my setup, lights and plant/plant health/plant look overall ? Tips are welcome.

This is how it looks now:

P.S. I hope i made myself clear. Thanks in advance.
P.S.S. The plant is typicale judging by the label that was on the plant, it said: "Dionaea Muscipula"
P.S.S.S. I had it for 2 weeks.
P.S.S.S.S. The place where i live is very cold and almost impossible to grow plants outside, except in summer.
P.S.S.S.S.S. I don't know why, but the plant looks greener and healthier in real life, i don't know why the photos are like that.

 

[Clint]

1: No but you can skip it this year

2: Set the plant in a shallow tray of pure water. Oh wait, it's not potted. Just add a little pure water.

3: Flush the plant with RO, distilled, or rain water. Only use RO, distilled, or rain water unless your local water has been tested and is low in TDS (Unlikely. Even if it has been, use rain/distilled/ro water to be on the safe side. That way you never have to question your water quality.)

4: That's not Sphagnum and no. It's probably OK as a topdressing if you just like the look of it, but don't add it to the media.

5: Nope. This spring, put it in full sun. Until then you had give it a short fridge dormancy (not freezer hehe) or put it in a sunny windowsill. D. adelae, on the other hand, would probably do well in that bowl.

6: Yep

7: It's fine.

 

[EdaxFlamma]

Welcome to the forums!!

Where do you live? You may be surprised.

1. Dormancy - Most likely the plant did not receive dormancy, even though it may have been cold in there I would doubt that the temps were regular enough to trigger dormancy. I would skip dormancy this year but definitely give it a nice long dormancy next year.

2. Watering - I am unsure what you mean by a "shiny black layer of water." Keep them damp but not water logged. Don't let them dry out but don't flood the little guy either.

3. Watering2 - It will probably be fine. Flush it with a good amount of distilled or preferably rain water.

4. Soil - That moss that you have there is not sphagnum moss. It could contain substantial nutrients, pest, fungi and other nasties. I would avoid it. A nice 50/50 mix peat/perlite would be one of the better mixes. Garden soil is a sure-fire death for a CP.

5. Lights- The best thing would be to put the plant outside once it warms up. As for that light it might be sufficient. The more light you can provide the better. If you can put it in a warm sunny windowsill with in addition to the light that would be best for now.

6. Flower - I would go ahead and remove the flower stalk.

7. Dividing - They can stay the way they are for now.

8. Container - I would seriously recommend putting it in a draining container. VFT's will become weak if grown in high humidity. A simple draining pot with a saucer under it will do just fine.


Overall: Try and keep trap agitation to a minimum. I would wait on feeding it for the time being; open leaves mean more surface area for photosynthesis.


Yet again welcome Eugene!
-J.P.

 

[joossa]

^They covered it pretty well.

Your set-up looks really nice and attractive. It reminds me of when I got my first VFT and placed it in a fish bowl terrarium for their first growing season. (Bad move!) Definitely move it (them) outside to full sun once the risk of frost has passed.

Good luck!

 

[scottychaos]

I would take the plant out of that terrarium.
instead put it in a regular pot, sit the pot in a tray of water.
keep the tray filled with rain water or distilled water.

for now, until spring, put it in a bright window indoors,
anywhere where it will get some direct sunlight.

put the plant outdoors in the spring, leave it there until autumn.
you will need to research a method for giving the plant a winter dormancy NEXT
winter, but you have plenty of time to learn all about that!

can you find regular peat moss where you live?
that would be best for a planting medium..
I would not use the moss you find in the woods..

The way it was growing here:

in its original pot with a tray of water underneath, it MUCH better than the way its growing here:

yes, the terrarium looks nicer! but its much worse for the plant..
the little pot the plant came is much better for the plant than the terrarium..
and its growing medium was probably fine..looks like peat moss..
you should have just left it there..

you should re-create those growing conditions..small pot, tray of water, peat moss, natural sunlight.
thats all your plant needs.

the terrarium, the dim artificial light, no drainage, and the "mystery moss" is not so good..

sorry about that!
I know you put some effort into that little terrarium, and it looks really great!
but you actually made the conditions for your plant quite a bit worse by making that little terrarium..
sometimes the best growing conditions arent as pretty as worse growing conditions..
but a healthy plant in an ugly pot is still much more beautiful than a dead plant in a pretty terrarium!

Scot

 

[Eugene]

1

2. Watering - I am unsure what you mean by a "shiny black layer of water." Keep them damp but not water logged. Don't let them dry out but don't flood the little guy either.

This is what is was trying to say:

It looks like it was heavily watered recently.

2

4. Soil - That moss that you have there is not sphagnum moss. It could contain substantial nutrients, pest, fungi and other nasties. I would avoid it. A nice 50/50 mix peat/perlite would be one of the better mixes. Garden soil is a sure-fire death for a CP.

I did note tamper with the soil, what did is i bought 50/50 peat/perlite mix and repotted it into the terrarium.
Sphagnum - has lots of "species", check wikipedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphagnum
I just thought that it's the same but it's "brother" out from the nordic countries.

I use it only for decoration, and i flushed it in order to avoid some nasty stuff and soil with which it came.

Is that okay?

3. It's quite strange that some resources on the internet say it's fine to keep a VFT in a terrarium, even some videos on expertvillage.com showed how to repot a VFT into a fishbowl. Is the terrarium a bad thing because of no drainage?

 

[EdaxFlamma]

It's not impossible to grow a VFT in a terrarium. It's just like housing a cat in a gerbil cage. It might do alright for a while but in the long run it isn't a great move. It is typically a lot more difficult to grow them in a terrarium as apposed to outside. The terrarium will harbor mold, increase humidity which will weaken the structure of the plant long term and provide an over all weaker plant. No light can compare with pure sunlight so that is also another disadvantage. Dormancy is also an issue.

Yeah... definitely don't keep them that damp haha.

The moss isn't sphagnum though. Sphagnum has very distinct characteristics which that moss doesn't have. It may not do any harm but I would still get rid of it. You don't need it. In a few months the natural moss spores that are in the peat will take over and spread like crazy.

And yet again it would be best outside of that terrarium once the temperatures warm up.

And as to those videos... there have been conflicting reports on the validity of the claims made by that person. I wouldn't take them as fact.

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html
This is much better quality reading.

 

[Eugene]

It's not impossible to grow a VFT in a terrarium. It's just like housing a cat in a gerbil cage. It might do alright for a while but in the long run it isn't a great move. It is typically a lot more difficult to grow them in a terrarium as apposed to outside. The terrarium will harbor mold, increase humidity which will weaken the structure of the plant long term and provide an over all weaker plant. No light can compare with pure sunlight so that is also another disadvantage. Dormancy is also an issue.

Yeah... definitely don't keep them that damp haha.

The moss isn't sphagnum though. Sphagnum has very distinct characteristics which that moss doesn't have. It may not do any harm but I would still get rid of it. You don't need it. In a few months the natural moss spores that are in the peat will take over and spread like crazy.

And yet again it would be best outside of that terrarium once the temperatures warm up.

And as to those videos... there have been conflicting reports on the validity of the claims made by that person. I wouldn't take them as fact.

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html
This is much better quality reading.

Hehe. Thanks for the info. Appreciate it!

So, you mean that peat already has sphagnum moss spores

 

[scottychaos]

Just because its on the internet, doesnt mean its right!

fish shouldnt be in goldfish bowls either..
If animal cruelty laws applied to fish (which they dont) goldfish bowls would be illegal..
but I digress..

Copied from my webpage about why I dont like VFTs or sarracenia in terrariums:

In my opinion, VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
the climate is fine for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
you can replicate June - August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

...cycle repeats...

so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
its not an option..its a necessity.

If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
Nature provides the perfect light for free..
then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/cp/

Scot

 

[EdaxFlamma]

No the peat doesn't have sphagnum spores in it but the moss that will pop up in it naturally you know will definitely be ok for the VFT.

Very nice Scotty!

 

[scottychaos]

Hehe. Thanks for the info. Appreciate it!

So, you mean that peat already has sphagnum moss spores

peat IS spagnum moss..its just fully broken down by time. (hundreds to thousands of years of time)

spagnum moss, or "long fibered spagnum moss" "LFS" as it is also known, is "fresh" peat..sometimes even living moss.
it usually comes in bales of dried/dead moss though..
the dried/dead moss will often sprout new live moss if conditions are good.
you can often get living moss spores from spagnum, but not likely from peat..
peat is "mined" like coal..from deposits deep under the surface.

a typical peat bog will have living spagnum moss on top, some dead spagnum below,
then the actual peat is the decayed spagnum far below the surface..

spagnum moss = very young peat.
peat moss = very old spagnum moss.

the characteristics are very different..
peat is very fine and powdery when dry..it will blow away in the wind like dust.
when wet it makes a thick goopy "soil"..thats peat.

spagnum is coarse and ropy..you can see the individual strands.
VFTs and sarracenia grow fine in either.

I like to use peat for the main "mass" of a pot, then put a thin layer of spagnum on top to keep the rain from splashing the peat and making a muddy mess.
spagnum is not messy when rained on, or watered...

Scot

 

[creepa200]

Excellent looking first VFT. I'm hoping my first VFTs look as good as that. (Hint to Andy)

Keep us posted on how it's doing

 

[Eugene]

Thanks for the replies guys.

Just because its on the internet, doesnt mean its right!

fish shouldnt be in goldfish bowls either..
If animal cruelty laws applied to fish (which they dont) goldfish bowls would be illegal..
but I digress..

Copied from my webpage about why I dont like VFTs or sarracenia in terrariums:

In my opinion, VFT's and Sarracenia should never be grown indoors or especially in terrariums..
the climate inside a terrarium is just all-wrong for them..
the climate is fine for a few months...but VFTs and Sarrs need very different climates at different times of year..

Keeping VFTs and Sarrs in a terrarum is the same as trying to grow maple tree bonsai in a terrarium..
you can replicate June - August ok in a terrarium..sunny and warm..but what about the other 9 months of the year?

Maple trees need a gradually warming spring to come out of dormancy, a gradually warmer and sunnier summer, a gradually cooler and darker autumn, then a cold and dark winter to be fully dormant.

...cycle repeats...

so do VFTs and Sarracenia.
its not an option..its a necessity.

If you grow a maple tree indoors it will die within a year...the non-changing environment of a terrarium will also eventually kill a VFT.

VFTs need it warm and REALLY sunny in the summer..DIRECT sunlight..
where can you find that? outdoors in the summer!
Nature provides the perfect light for free..
then you need gradually decreasing photoperiod and gradually decreasing temps from summer into autumn..
where can you find that? outdoors..again nature does all the work for us.

The only tricky season for those of us in the Northern states is the winter..Spring, Summer and Autumn are a breeze..just keep the plants outdoors April - October.
but the plants need a COOL winter..the winter of South Carolina..
but winters in the northern states are too severe and will kill them if the plants are left outdoors..

If you have a cool basement or attic, or a garage that stays in the 40's (4-10C) all winter, thats fine for dormancy..or ideally, if you live in the southern US where winters are mild, just leave your plants outside 24/7/365!

http://gold.mylargescale.com/scottychaos/cp/

Scot

As i already told you guys, that the climate here is WAY colder than the normal VFT habitat i.e. last summer we only got 10 days of WARM sun! Guess, what, the other 11 months are almost cold as hell! So VFT here, outdoor is a no-no. They would simple not survive.

40's (4-10C)

Thats like 9 months here.
Of course i would consider direct, warm, sunlight when it is availabe.

Im going to repot in back to a normal container, and get rid of the moss i already have in the near future.

Thanks for the help guys! I really appreciate it!

P.S.

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq.html
This is much better quality reading.

Acctualy this resource also states that VFT need WARM and HUMID conditions (sun also of course), and it also says as long as i can provide those conditions in a terrarium, VFT will be fine .

 

[scottychaos]

P.S. Acctualy this resource also states that VFT need WARM and HUMID conditions (sun also of course), and it also says as long as i can provide those conditions in a terrarium, VFT will be fine .

well..
but it doesnt say it will be fine in a terrarium forever..
and a few pages later, it does then go on to talk about dormancy in detail:

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2360.html

Thanks for the replies guys.


As i already told you guys, that the climate here is WAY colder than the normal VFT habitat i.e. last summer we only got 10 days of WARM sun! Guess, what, the other 11 months are almost cold as hell! So VFT here, outdoor is a no-no. They would simple not survive.
Thats like 9 months here.
Of course i would consider direct, warm, sunlight when it is availabe.

wow! thats quite the climate you have!
(and I thought Rochester had bad winters!

where exactly are you Eugene?
did I hear you say Siberia??

hmmm..well, your conditions do present a unique problem..
but a terrarium is still a bad idea..no matter where you live,
because a terrarium cant give the proper dormancy cues.

how about this for an idea:

starting now, put your plant in a bright window indoors..where you can give it the most direct light possible.
then, when your short "growing season" does arrive, put the plant outdoors..
keep it outdoors until it starts to fall below freezing again.
even if thats only 2 months, it might be enough time to give the plant the proper decreasing temp and decreasing photoperiod cues for it to enter dormancy.
then put the plant in the fridge for 4 months.
after 4 months, take it out and put it back in the window.
then put it back outdoors for the "summer" again..
cycle repeats..

perhaps some kind of small greenhouse could help..
increase the outdoor growing season by a month in both directions.

I suppose in theory it would be possible to replicate seasons inside a terrarium..
but it would be complicated and expensive..
altering photoperiod is easy enough, just change the timer once a week, gradually decreasing the light.
but replicating decreasing temps is the real problem..
you almost need some kind of refrigeration unit..
hard to do indoors..
the problem with a terrarium or just keeping a VFT indoors all year is that humans
like to keep their indoor climate very stable..
the typical house stays about 70 degrees inside every single day of the year.
its its a little below that, we add heat.
if its too much above that, we add air conditioning.
VFTs dont want that..that is very bad for them.
they want a low of 40F (4C) in January, then a gradual increase for 6 months up to 90F (33C) in July, then a gradual decrease for 6 months back down again to 40 in January again..humans simply dont do that indoors...
we have an indoor range from about 60 to 80 (15-27C)..thats it.


hmmmm..
another option.
You could solve once and for all the "decreasing photoperiod is more important than decreasing temps" debate!
personally, I dont believe it...I think you have to have both for a proper dormancy.
(decreasing light and decreasing temps from summer into winter)

but you could be a test case!

grow VFTs on a windowsill...indoors...every single day of the year.
give them no artificial light at all.
only natural sunlight through the window.
this way, the plants will naturally get the decreasing and increasing photoperiods throughout the year..same as if they were outdoors..
they will get very little sunlight in the winter..(even zero sunlight for a few weeks if you are above the arctic circle!) then the most sunlight in the summer..
if the windowsill gets some cooler temps in the winter, so much the better.

the naturally increasing and decreasing photoperiod, from the sunlight it gets through the window,
will "set the plants clock" and keep it in tune with the seasons..
it should naturally go dormant every winter, by itself, even if the indoor temps are a little bit too high.

IMO, that is probably your best-bet for trying to grow VFTs or Sarracenia..
it could work!

Scot

 

[Eugene]

well..
but it doesnt say it will be fine in a terrarium forever..
and a few pages later, it does then go on to talk about dormancy in detail:

http://www.sarracenia.com/faq/faq2360.html



wow! thats quite the climate you have!
(and I thought Rochester had bad winters!

where exactly are you Eugene?
did I hear you say Siberia??

hmmm..well, your conditions do present a unique problem..
but a terrarium is still a bad idea..no matter where you live,
because a terrarium cant give the proper dormancy cues.

how about this for an idea:

starting now, put your plant in a bright window indoors..where you can give it the most direct light possible.
then, when your short "growing season" does arrive, put the plant outdoors..
keep it outdoors until it starts to fall below freezing again.
even if thats only 2 months, it might be enough time to give the plant the proper decreasing temp and decreasing photoperiod cues for it to enter dormancy.
then put the plant in the fridge for 4 months.
after 4 months, take it out and put it back in the window.
then put it back outdoors for the "summer" again..
cycle repeats..

perhaps some kind of small greenhouse could help..
increase the outdoor growing season by a month in both directions.

I suppose in theory it would be possible to replicate seasons inside a terrarium..
but it would be complicated and expensive..
altering photoperiod is easy enough, just change the timer once a week, gradually decreasing the light.
but replicating decreasing temps is the real problem..
you almost need some kind of refrigeration unit..
hard to do indoors..
the problem with a terrarium or just keeping a VFT indoors all year is that humans
like to keep their indoor climate very stable..
the typical house stays about 70 degrees inside every single day of the year.
its its a little below that, we add heat.
if its too much above that, we add air conditioning.
VFTs dont want that..that is very bad for them.
they want a low of 40F (4C) in January, then a gradual increase for 6 months up to 90F (33C) in July, then a gradual decrease for 6 months back down again to 40 in January again..humans simply dont do that indoors...
we have an indoor range from about 60 to 80 (15-27C)..thats it.


hmmmm..
another option.
You could solve once and for all the "decreasing photoperiod is more important than decreasing temps" debate!
personally, I dont believe it...I think you have to have both for a proper dormancy.
(decreasing light and decreasing temps from summer into winter)

but you could be a test case!

grow VFTs on a windowsill...indoors...every single day of the year.
give them no artificial light at all.
only natural sunlight through the window.
this way, the plants will naturally get the decreasing and increasing photoperiods throughout the year..same as if they were outdoors..
they will get very little sunlight in the winter..(even zero sunlight for a few weeks if you are above the arctic circle!) then the most sunlight in the summer..
if the windowsill gets some cooler temps in the winter, so much the better.

the naturally increasing and decreasing photoperiod, from the sunlight it gets through the window,
will "set the plants clock" and keep it in tune with the seasons..
it should naturally go dormant every winter, by itself, even if the indoor temps are a little bit too high.

IMO, that is probably your best-bet for trying to grow VFTs or Sarracenia..
it could work!

Scot

Wow... thanks! Lots of food for the brain

 

[Clint]

Where do you live exactly? What state/province/whatever?

 

[Not a Number]

He said the Baltic in his first post. Sweden, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, Russia or Denmark. Nice and chilly either way.

 

[Eugene]

He said the Baltic in his first post. Sweden, Finland, Poland, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Germany, Russia or Denmark. Nice and chilly either way.

Estonia to be exact. Closest to the Baltic sea.

 

[Clint]

Brr, I think I'd have to move lol.