Many thanks! To name a few professionals

[greenhouse1]

Thank you so much to the professional, kind voices of reason who posted favorable comments regarding Petflytrap/Exotic Gardens on the CP listserv...to name a few...Tamlin Dawnstar, Mike King, and a gentleman named Joseph Clemens. They are all stars in my book!
This may be a bit lengthy but here it is.
I recently joined the listserv so I could observe and learn more about CPs. How astonished I was to find many of the "posters" there to be not only full of knowledge but also full of themselves. Such an elitist group I have seldom witnessed. Many of them seem to be unduly harsh regarding this "sweet little site" and too arrogant to share their wealth of information to newcomers and hobbyists. Such a shame.
If they only knew how Petflytrap.com began and how it has evolved they might be amazed. To compare Petflytrap to a pet rock is sad. The concept of having a carnivorous plant as a "pet" is to say the owners here treat their plants with loving care and concern (as many with people with conventional pets do) and hope that others will do the same. The naysayers do not know of what they speak or care whom they hurt. Did it ever occur to them that these plants may have been the only type of "pet" that Phil or Jeff could have as children? Some people are allergic to conventional pets and adopt other things in their places.
Also, this site was begun out of care and concern for the environment and the endangered plants on our planet. It was begun too to help educate the young and create an awareness of these fun and fascinating plants so they may continue to thrive. The interest in these plants for Phil began at a very young age and he educated himself about them and studied them. It was, as I see it, a bold move to dedicate his career to this endeavor. This site and business has not been an easy path for Phil or Jeff. Jeff too has a true calling and cares much for all things living and endangered. This site and business is not an easy thing and they are still learning and growing. They have tried to create a kind and gentle place where all will feel welcome. For this I applaud them. They welcome one and all. They share information and have tried to accomodate every level. They live simply , have sacrificed much, and are often under much stress to keep this place going. It's not an easy task.
So to everyone here who supports this site and is kind enough to stand up and defend it to the intelligensia and the general public, you have my personal thanks! I thank you for your courage to speak! Your help will preserve the future of CPs for generations to come.
Hopefully this treatise has been taken in the spirit in which it was meant....for you see I am the mom of one of the owners..and I know firsthand what has and does go on behind the scenes of Petflytrap. It is a truly wonderful place and makes me proud every day

 

[Parasuco]

People diss PFT

*blinks.... eyes glaze over, twinkle*

Have they been here, or just read the name? Maybe they are the farts who have no imagination, and call their websites "Carnivorous Plants".

I've recently spoken with Phil and Jeff a bit more, and not only are they both dedicated to the hobby, business, and preservation of these plants, but they are some of the nicest people I've ever talked to...

I'm not subscribed to any listserves, as I don't do the email thing a whole lot, but it almost makes me wanna join just to defend the cause...

That truly beffudles me... I don't know wut to say about that... HAS they're been something that they find unnattractive about his site, that they havent given a chance, or is it pure ignorance?

 

[dfalkanger]

I am a newbie to CP's I have only been growing them for about a year or so.  Ever since I started visiting this site my plants have been healthier, everybody here has been so nice and helfpul.  

I also ordered a Sarra judith hindle from pft.com, and I just want to say that the quality of the plant, and delivery time was exceptional!

  It is doing so well, thank you to everybody and especially phil and jeff for doing such a good job with everthing.

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

OK.   My turn.  Pass that soapbox over here.  Thank you.  After pondering this (I am quite ponderous you know) and some other threads, it seems obvious to me that 1) the other guys are jealous of how well this 'Newbie' site has done and how well everyone treats each other.  For seldom is heard a discouraging word and the skies are..... sorry, my mind wandered. Where was I? Oh, yeah, and 2) we as a group need to start helping others learn how to find this stuff for themselves.  Tamlin, Phil, Jeff, and many others are working on this and have been working on this for a while.  While we can almost  always give someone an answer quickly, the information they find for themselves gives them true knowledge of their plant(s) and helps answer questions they haven't thought to ask yet.
Remember, when you quit learning you might as well be dead, for they are the only ones who have no further use for knowledge.

OK, you can have the soapbox back.

 

[dodecatheon]

I don't think that the sentiments expressed on the CP mailing list are representative of the feelings of the group as a whole. More likely the lists members are wary of flame wars and are not interested in spending valuable plant time composing essays on such minor issues as the relative merits of CP discussion forums. Conversely, grumpy people with lots of time on their hands are the ones who will waste their time criticising the work of strangers.

 

[Parasuco]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (dodecatheon @ Sep. 15 2002,4:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">grumpy people with lots of time on their hands are the ones who will waste their time criticising the work of strangers.[/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>
Like I said... The farts.

 

[greenhouse1]

I don't like flame wars either. Just wanted to give thanks where thanks was due. Sorry if I left anyone out who stood in defense of Petflytrap. I couldn't read all the posts and thank everyone by name. Thought some of you might like to hear a personal perspective on this site too and wanted to remind readers that knowledge is acquired...few are born brilliant. As we continue on our quest for answers let us consider all the sources and value each for its contribution to us.

 

[Dyflam]

Here here... I'll drink to that! (But then again I'll drink to most anything.) Seriously though, I first came to this site looking for information on how not to kill a VFT. Since that time I have become aware of CP's I had never heard of and now am an avid collector of CP's. This website has become much more to me than an information site. Even though we've never met, I consider many of you friends and visit for many other reasons than to just receive technical information. As a matter of fact, I feel I have learned enough so that I may now offer some info. YAY!!

 

[schloaty]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Here here... I'll drink to that! (But then again I'll drink to most anything.) [/QUOTE]<span id='postcolor'>

Dyflam, we gotta party....

True, true...This is the first sight I haven't been "yelled" at for asking "stupid" questions....Of which I hope I ask fewer now..

Anyway, I've learned tons from what people have told me, and reading older posts. Now it's kinda fun to pass on the info to people that are even newer than I.

And people don't groan too badly when I crack a bad one, as I am want to do....

 

[larry]

I've known about the cp listserv for a while. I've read the posts, but have never posted myself. The people there are elitists and love to argue. I don't need that. This place is so much better.

 

[pthiel]

Well, I am going to take the unpopular side of this and defend the listserv. I disagree that the listserv is composed of only elitists and those who love to argue. There are alot of truly good helpful people who frequent the listserv and offer alot of advice and experience to others. Unfortunately the listserv is unmoderated and as anything that involves a group of people you will get that 1% that makes the most noise and gets the most attention. I have spent alot of time formatting the old listserv archives and making them searchable so I have read alot (almost 10 years worth) of the posts and have found an incredible amount of information available in them on questions I did not even know enough to ask. Do not write off the listserv because 1 or 2 people want to argue about something, ignore them (which drives them crazy) and read the information that is being made available. And try to understand some of the people who post there are the same people taking their time to go climb the tepuis to discover and identify new species and get them into cultivation, they probably do not have the free time to answer on why you cannot use tap water on your vft, not a criticism on the question itself it is just that that information is easily obtainable from a hundred other locations and they will spend their time on something not so easily obtainable.

My two cents & Cheers,

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

I want to say that I agree with Pete. Although initially irritated with the comments of a few poisionous individuals, I do not want the members here to think that I do not hold the listserve, and the ICPS, in high regard. I do. Without the contributions made by the ICPS, we would be in the dark ages still. The listserve is a fantastic resource: in it's archives almost every CP question that can be asked has been answered.

Most ICPS officers are my personal friends, and have helped me immesurably in my work and studies. These men of great accomplishment still have the grace to look kindly on my humble work, and offer their invaluable help and insight whenever I have need: and I am not even an ICPS member!

My concepts of Stewardship of plants vs Ownership stem directly from Dr. Barry Meyers-Rice's inspiration.

There will always be those of overwhelming ego, diminuative intelligence and loud mouths who find nothing as sweet as the odor of their own....well, you get the point. Let's not judge the orchard by the worm in the apple.

However, you may rest assured that if that particular broken wheel squeeks again, I am ready with MY oilcan. So, hats off to Phill and Jaie for affording us this forum, and also to the great men behind the ICPS listserve, and it's many, many kind, skilled, and dedicated members.

 

[greenhouse1]

All right. Let me clear this up. I have great respect for the ICPS and those on the CP listserv who have dedicated so much to furthering interest and knowledge in CPs. Many of those members are well known in the field and are probably not the people who made disparaging remarks about this site.  I should have replaced the word "many" with the word some in my initial post regarding elitist views.
In my followup post I did ask for us to consider all sources and value each of those sources for their respective contributions.  It is obvious that the CP listserv is an overall
great place to find information regarding CPs albeit perhaps not at the beginner level.
So in essence I agree with Tamlin and Pthiel.  If they say the majority of the members of the listserve are good folks I am inclined to go along with that view as I trust their judgement.
I also know that Phil has had contact with Dr.Barry Meyers-Rice and holds him in high esteem...as well he should.
I did not mean to stir anything up...just to thank those who came to the defense of Exotic Gardens/Petflytrap as yet another option for some people.

 

[Pyro]

Greenhouse,

Well we all appreciate your thanks but you forgot to thank the one who started it. He may not be as verbally gifted as Tamlin amd Mike King and Joseph but he tries and he did have a few good comebacks

I also fully agree with Tamlin and Pete, the list is a great resource and I do recommend that other growers use it as well. I have met many great growers via the list and corespond with many of them on a personal level. Sure there are a few on there who will loudly and publicly proclaim their dislike for newbies. If you can weather their storms though, you will often be contacted off list by others who are more than happy to talk to you and don't mine if you are new to CPs, old to CP or in between.

 

[pthiel]

GreenHouse1, I was not in any way criticizing your post or your feelings on this, I truly understand and often get very frustrated with some of the people who post on the listserv. Having gone back through the archives and seeing firsthand some of the people that appear to have been run off or at least no longer post there due to the inconsiderate actions of others makes me wish that it was not an unmoderated list. That is what really helps make this site work, the time and attention of Phil & Jeff and all the moderators who give their time to ensure it stays friendly and posts are helpful not hurtful. If you took my post to in any way be a criticism of yours please accept my apology - it was not meant to be.

Pyro - I caught who the lead poster over there was - you aren't in school to be a barrister are you?

Cheers,

 

[greenhouse1]

Oh Pyro....I'm so sorry! You go by Travis on there don't you? And you are gifted and clever too, and witty.

(Not many of us are as verbally gifted as Tamlin)

Thank you so much...I truly didn't mean to leave you out. Please just write it off to old age (mine, not yours).
And Pthiel....no offense taken...you were just being factual...no problem.
Next...and I'm not trying to cause any discussion on this....but
While we're here...there was a mention about people not using their real names on here. For lots of us it's a matter of security rather than worrying about spam. Sad to say but in this nutty world some of us feel the need to stay a little private in public places. I really understand those who prefer to remain somewhat anonymous...especially in the cases of the young users.

 

[Tamlin Dawnstar]

One thing I like about the anonimity is that it puts us all on equal footing. No titles here , please. No letters after your name, no accredations. Your contributions will not be better because you spent 10 years in school. Your accomplishments will not make you kinder or more generous. If you have something to teach, then teach! Tell us what you have learned, and our respect will follow. If you have something to share put it on the table. If you have nothing to offer but are genuine in your love for these plants, then take what others give freely and offer your thanks for it. Don't assume that your education, your employment or your years automatically grants you some type of superiority, it does not. Not here. Let the affairs of ego and contention and accountability go, they have no place here where there is no arena of the ego. In this community we do not "debate", we "discuss". In this place you are a name only: and you are only as good as that name proves to be. I like it like this. Sometimes I have no idea if I am addressing an 11 year old or someone of an age with me, a male or female, a citizen of the U.S. or someone from Sweden. Since I will probably never meet most of the members, this matters little to me. What does matter is the friends I have made, and our shared love of this hobby. Even if the whole world is at war with itself, at least here is a civil world community, united in a common love of something more than power and wealth. Like the plants we love, this attitude itself seems in danger of extinction - and like the plants is worthy of preservation.

Vote for Tamlin for the position of W orld E xpert in the I dentification of R osetted D roserae. (Consider the anacronym&#33

My slogan: "A sundew in every pot".

Nurse, my medication please.

 

[BigCarnivourKid]

I agree Tamlin. Those is qualities are what kept me from being a 'lurker', safe in my anonymity, to a participant in this forum. The friendship and respect shown by all in this and other PFT forums is a rare gem. The like of which is not found in many forums.

 

[Guest]

GROUP HUG!!!

At first I was very upset with the comments that I saw on the ICPS board. I understand that they are a few of the 1000+ people the ICPS has, but I thought to myself:

"If this person and this person and this person share these feelings, I can only imagine what others feel."

I know it isn't a great thought to have. But the fact is, I get very protective of this place.

Everyone here I consider friends, close family.

And to me, the words of a few, without a lot of response of applaud, or even others saying 'dude, chill' set me off into another orbit.

Phil and others around me can tell you that I was very unhappy....on many levels...

I had even composed several 'letters' with my thoughts...some to put in this forum..and yet others for the listserv.

My point, if there is one, is that we have worked very hard to make this as much of a community as we could.

There are many people around the world, and for some, this is their only outlet to discuss these plants...OR to meet people to trade with. OR to just go to a 'happy place' and not fear anyone's ignorance.

So when I saw the 'few' that wanted to poke a stick at what we have made, it still set me off. I don't think that some TRULY know what all we have put into the CP world. I am not talking about selling plants. I am talking about the other stuff that we do behind the scenes that many people don't see.

PFT staff ( and friends ) take great pride in what we do, and we feel we are doing something positive for this community/world.
----

I preach love becuase that is what we need. Spicing things up will only lead to someone's feeling getting hurt. Someone feeling like they are less than you. NOT COOL.
----
Keeping names hidden is perfect for those that don't know much. OR just don't want people to know how old they are, or whatever.

Anyway...we can debate the good of this forum and the wonderful people that inhabit it all day. I have nothing but kind words for you all and great respect ( especially the ones that contribute tons of information and their time ).

There will always be a few bad apples everywhere ( we have had our share here as well ). I know that people will speak out against things they cannot just understand. Some people choose to ignore the good and just go for the bad. So be it.

I know what we ( that means everyone ) have built something here that is exponentially better than any other CP site ( or for that matter any other discussion forum ).

You are all great people, and I am blessed to have had this chance to meet you all and I will continue to strengthen relationships I have started, as well and build new ones that have yet to show their faces!

 

[adnedarn]

*sips beer* I LOVE YOU guys MAN!!

...This is the only cp forum i visit. no one has ever given me a reason to look else where... i am glad i found this place way back when... and i am happy i stayed. even threw the slow times (when the forum didn't move for days it seamed). but i did stay. here i am... surrounded by many talented people. and many people that make great friends... and many talented people that make great friends

. as i see it. those with negative energy. can either switch to the good side (of positive energy) or *poof* be gone... i hope you all join us over here. it really IS a much much better way to live
andrew