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Long-Fibered Sphagnum & Conserving Water

raccoon city

Supporter
Hello to everyone on Terra Forums,

Here's some background info relevant to my problem: I purchase reverse-osmosis water by the gallon because my tap water is full of dissolved solids. I have no plans to buy a reverse-osmosis filter because I am a renter, that someday, may have to move. Also, I live in central California, which is famous for its long, hot, dry summers.

Anyways, I like Long-Fibered Sphagnum because it holds onto water a lot better than other soils. Which is all fine and dandy, until the LFS comes back to life. As I have learned, if I keep my LFS moist for a few months, it comes back to life, and it seems to drink up all of the water that is supposed to go to my carnivorous plants. So here's the $64,000 question: Should I remove all of the living LFS so I don't have to purchase water, by the gallon, so frequently?

Thanks,
raccoon city
(John)
 
IME, live sphagnum holds onto water better than the dried stuff. Your lucky to have it grow so easily for you.

But if you really don't want it, try microwaving the dried lfs for a minute before using it. That should keep it dead.
 
You can buy a R/O unit that screws on your tap. I just push a button and it pops off, it doesn't have to be hard wired to the faucet, mine isn't.

I don't know that I ever had a problem with my moss stealing my water. I always watered in such a manner that water flooded from the bottom of the pot, this way I knew there was nothing lingering in the soil from one watering to the next.

I don't think there's any way to grow CPs "Water smart" which is essentially what I think you're asking. Try succulents if you want to conserve water, I only water my succulents when I feel like it and they thrive on that. I was always watering my house full of Neps 2-3 times a week all year long.
 
Long-fiber sphagnum -- especially live -- conserves water and goes a long way in preventing plants from drying out completely; also, it manages to crowd out less desirable elements such as Botrytis.

Keep the moss . . .
 
theyellowdart: Have you ever microwaved lfs for an entire minute? If so, why? If not, why recommend something so strange when you have never tried it? I don't want to damage my microwave, or the lfs. I don't think microwaving lfs would actually help conserve water, though it would probably kill the lfs, and the microwave, for good...

swords: A portable R/O unit might actually save some money in the long run, just as long as the replacement filters cost less than buying R/O water by the gallon. I am trying to grow CPs with a minimum of water. I've been doing it fairly successfully for about 15 months. One last thing--succulents are really cool. I've been growing succulents for years.

It seems like I am alone in thinking that dead LFS conserves R/O water better than live LFS. All I know is that my plant containers with live LFS always dry up significantly faster than my plant containers with dead LFS, all other variables equal. So I'll probably just rip out all the live LFS.
 
I dont see how live LFS can "steal" water from the CPs..
yes, the green stuff is on top, which in theory is above the roots of the CPs, so maybe thats why people think it takes water away from the CPs..

but in reality, its only a thin top layer of moss that is alive..there is still a ton of water below the live moss..
and the water "rises" from evaporation only..I doubt the live moss "pulls" much water from below..it doesnt have roots! ;)

I bet in reality there is no measurable difference between live moss and dead moss, as far as how much water gets to the CP roots...I wouldnt waste any time worrying about it! ;)
its really a non-issue..

Scot

---------- Post added at 05:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 05:31 AM ----------

It seems like I am alone in thinking that dead LFS conserves R/O water better than live LFS. All I know is that my plant containers with live LFS always dry up significantly faster than my plant containers with dead LFS, all other variables equal. So I'll probably just rip out all the live LFS.

are you really sure its the moss?
the plants in the pots probably have a much more variable rate of water use than the dry vs. live moss..

the only way you can sure its the moss is if you have empty pots, equal size, equal amounts of water..then you could test it..

otherwise it could easily be the plants..plants that *look* similar might be using water at very different rates..

Scot
 
theyellowdart: Have you ever microwaved lfs for an entire minute? If so, why? If not, why recommend something so strange when you have never tried it? I don't want to damage my microwave, or the lfs. I don't think microwaving lfs would actually help conserve water, though it would probably kill the lfs, and the microwave, for good...

I would never recommend something I haven't tried before, unless I directly state that the method in question is only something I've heard of.
So yes, I have microwaved dried lfs for a minute in my microwave. It is intended to "sterilize" the media and/or prevent it from coming back to life; which it has never done for me when microwaved. It is not intended to make the media hold onto more water, which it will not.
I don't understand the idea that it will destroy your microwave. How is microwaving sphagnum any different from microwaving something like broccoli?

I guess I should have written to microwave it until is somewhat hot to the touch, not boiling, which will vary between microwaves. I've found mine to take a minute, but I'm sure others will take a longer or shorter amount of time. Just do some experimenting.

Edit: Wet the media before you microwave it. Doing it dry wouldn't cause any harm, I just think that water distributes heat more evenly throughout the media.
 
I wouldn't be surprised if more water is lost through live LFS than through dead LFS. It seems to have much more surface area when alive, allowing more water to evaporate, or evapotranspire if you prefer.
 
The results are in, and today's winner is... herenorthere! Just as soon as I receive the $64,000 checks from all of the other contestants, that is when herenorthere will receive his winnings. :)

Seriously, though, I must be getting senile with old age because I am now remembering ripping out all of the live LFS in the past. Maybe I should have microwaved the LFS in the beginning, because it just keeps on coming back. And, yes, live LFS has roots; they're shallow roots, but roots nonetheless.

Could I have a Mod close this thread? I found the one person that somewhat agrees with me, and that's all I really wanted. See you all next time, on raccoon city's The $64,000 Question!
 
  • #10
And, yes, live LFS has roots; they're shallow roots, but roots nonetheless.

Wrong! Bryophytes do not have true roots. Bryphotes lack a vascular system. Bryophytes have anchoring structures called rhizoids.

Peat moss, dead long fiber sphagnum and live Sphagnum all share one characteristic - they are capable of holding 20 times their weight in water.

Living moss may need more water because it is growing and both the mass and surface area increases.

Live Sphagnum has several advantages. If you want to keep it live you must pay more attention to the watering. It consumes nutrients such as calcium and magnesium which may not be all the good for your plant. It can discourage growth of other plants or mosses. It is self-renewing.

If you don't want live moss, just trim it off, dry it out and make long fiber sphagnum out of it.
 
  • #11
It's pretty moist around here so I don't have the same perspective exactly, but in my experience I can water less in pots with Sphagnum on top. If I really let the watering go, the top layer goes crispy, but the stuff underneath is still alive and moist. Dead strands like the stuff you get for soil dressings doesn't seem to hold water in a dry environment as well; it dries the same way peat does and is slow to rehydrate.
Like NaN says, I trim my Sphagnum colonies down to the soil line once or twice a year and use it for stuff. It's great for starting Sarracenia cuttings and other plants, and you can usually find people who want to trade for it. It can be obnoxious - I have some seedling pots that are just miserable for moss - but I think it's too useful and easy to grow to forgo altogether.
~Joe
 
  • #12
I found the one person that somewhat agrees with me, and that's all I really wanted.

If that's what you wanted then you should have said so. Don't make people waste their precious time trying to honestly answer questions that you aren't even looking for answers to.
Oh yeah... And it wouldn't hurt to say thank you.

I'm sorry, but your posts have really rubbed me the wrong way.
 
  • #13
theyellowdart: The topic at hand is LFS & Conserving Water. Even you admit that microwaving LFS is "not intended to make the media hold onto more water, which it will not." If you come up with an idea to conserve water, I will thank you. Which reminds me...

Thank you, Not a Number, for your awesome comments. Although rhizoids look and kinda act like roots, they are not roots; my bad. I have a comment about peat that is based on my own experiences. Although peat can hold 20 times its own weight in water, the standard 50/50 mix of peat and perlite (or pumice) will dry out a lot faster than regular lfs. This observation is only relevant to those that live in an arid climate, and don't have a R/O filter yet.
 
  • #14
theyellowdart: The topic at hand is LFS & Conserving Water. Even you admit that microwaving LFS is "not intended to make the media hold onto more water, which it will not." If you come up with an idea to conserve water, I will thank you.

I already answered that question out of my own experience. Other members have replied with ideas as well.

Here:
(Me)
IME, live sphagnum holds onto water better than the dried stuff. Your lucky to have it grow so easily for you.
I also added...
But if you really don't want it, try microwaving the dried lfs for a minute before using it. That should keep it dead.
Because you had stated:
As I have learned, if I keep my LFS moist for a few months, it comes back to life, and it seems to drink up all of the water that is supposed to go to my carnivorous plants.

You then went on to ask rather rudely, as if I was pulling all of this out of my behind:
theyellowdart: Have you ever microwaved lfs for an entire minute? If so, why? If not, why recommend something so strange when you have never tried it? I don't want to damage my microwave, or the lfs. I don't think microwaving lfs would actually help conserve water, though it would probably kill the lfs, and the microwave, for good...

And I had my response and so on...

Point being, I was just answering questions and giving advice based on what you had written.

Edit: BTW, I'm not trying to demand a thank you out of you if that's what your thinking.
 
  • #15
Okay, I hope I can wrap this thread up without further offending anyone. I think that theyellowdart and I just need to agree to disagree. Apparently he really was just trying to help. It didn't seem like it at first; but since he has been so adamant about having pure intentions, who am I to doubt him? I would like to thank everyone for their input. I have learned a lot over the last couple of days. We all come from different parts of the Universe, and what works for me may not work for anyone else; or in other words, there's more than one way to skin a CArnivorous planT. ;)
 
  • #16
the moss is not stealing your water. It holds water very well, and I use it so I don't have to water as much. I water only about 1/3 as often as I did when trying to use peat/bark mixtures.
 
  • #17
Here's another perspective. Forget conserving water plain and simple. If your restricted budget threatens your plants... come on. If they need more water, then water them. That's the cost of growing tropicals in your locality.
Live long sphagnum is a premium substrate for Nepenthes. Look at threads about N. villosa, edswardsiana, macrophylla, hamata.... the list goes on. But when "experts" grow very rare babies of these they very frequently treat them to a bed or at least top dressing of live LFS. If humidity loss is that big a problem still, consider an enclosure. To start cheap you could try two 10g. tanks for like $20. Killing your LFS is just not preferable the way I see it. I would try to grow it and use it to my advantage.
 
  • #18
Being more delicate to poor conditions than Nepenthes, live LFS is a great way to keep an eye on the general health of your Neps. if your live moss starts to die off something is amiss (light, temps, humidity, soil has become saline or too dry, etc.) and you can try to discover and correct it before the Neps start to have adverse reactions.
 
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