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Lions and bears and... elephants?

  • Thread starter Cynic81
  • Start date

Cynic81

Frakkin Toaster
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/08/17/wild.america.ap/index.html

Basically: Several prominent ecologists have pitched the idea of introducing Lions and Elephants and other large african mammals to the US Great Plains, both to save them from extinction and repair North America's biodiversity by restoring the large mammals that have been absent form it sicne humans overran the continent several hundred thousand years ago.

Discuss.
 
well, of course i'm VERY skeptical about it. Who knows what unintended side effects that could have? what if they start tearing down trees (the elephants) like they do in africa? if they start doing bad things... what then? will they just kill them all or put them back in zoos?
and just IMAGINE what the cattle ranchers will do if they find out they're going to introduce LIONS???! If reintroducing WOLVES was met with a LOT of opposition, there'll be murders with lions!

so I'm against it.

it WOULD be interesting though... and if it worked, you'd be killing two birds with one stone.
 
there are so many things wrong with this idea that it's impossible for me to condense them all into one post. except for, possibly, "how dare these people call themselves ecologists."

yes. let's take species that we've already pretty much doomed to extinction, and import them into an already endangered ecosystem so we can wipe out even MORE species and just generally screw up the entire north american ecosystem. worse than we already have, that is. wow, what a great idea!
mad.gif


not that it would ever (could ever) happen... we can't even get wolves, a native species, reintroduced into the Northeast. what makes you think ranchers are going to allow lions to freely roam the plains?
 
dont we have an elephant sanctuary in tennesee?
 
and elephants kill more people yearly than lions do... and hippos more than any other african mammal (directly... rats don't count)
 
The lead author is a PhD student and the whole thing sounds too much like a Friday night of beer & pizza gone truly wrong.  Our discussions 20 years ago skittered off in amazing directions, depending on what combination of geologists, botanists, wildlifers, & archaeologists showed up that night.  We were no less fantastical, but we didn't have Ted Turner and his $ sitting in.  So we were mostly harmless.
 
Frist humans have only been in North America for ~12000 years, or atleast that is what most believe(some say older, but none farther than 25000years ago) anyways second of all the population of humans was so small that there is no concivable way they could have been the sole result of the extinction of these animals. These animals went extinct for a reason, they were not as fit as what out competed them. At the same time these animals go extinct there is a major climate shift in North America. There is geological data for a climate shift and shifts in cultural remains that conincide with a changing enviroment.

My biggest question is why dont these people put the money into restoring the land back to the way it was before humans decided that buffalo(and other native fauna) and Native Americans were not using the space properly and that manifest destiny said lets wipe them all out.

sorry but it sounds to me like they made a mistake and drank the bong water when they came up with this idea.
 
It's a fun IDEA...but not practical, obviously. Yes, it's a physical manifestation of the ideas that professors and grad students kick around at "happy hour" on Fridays at University.

I'd be more than happy to see sheep and cattle and wild horses off government(our) land in the west...I'm just not sure introducing lions and cheetahs is the way to do it. They aren't our native mega-fauna.
 
  • #10
the plains wolf and eastern couger that originaly roamed this land are gone, but we dont need cheap replacements.
 
  • #11
african lions are in no way endangered. the reason we do not have the mega fauna we once did in the americas anymore is do to a change in global weather paterns. where i live in north east Montana is now short grass prairie, just fine for supporting deer elk and antelope year round along with migrating bison herds. 25,000 years ago the plains where i live supported a variety of animals that would have rivaled present day Africa but back then it was tall grass prairie as was much of the central part of North america from the rockys to the appalachians. the grasslands were able to support a huge abondance of mega fauna there is no way it could now
 
  • #12
Don't some of you have gardens they can munch on?
 
  • #13
I think I have a slightly more practical solution... terraform mars. Move humans to Mars. Leave Earth the Hell alone! I don't think some introduced animals like camels and horses would hurt the ecosystem that much but Lions? and Elephants? Creatures that have nothing to keep them in check? What about our native fauna? This has disaster written all over it and I don't want to ever see lions in my back yard.
 
  • #15
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ALLOSAURZ @ Aug. 20 2005,8:20)]I think I have a slightly more practical solution... terraform mars. Move humans to Mars. Leave Earth the Hell alone! I don't think some introduced animals like camels and horses would hurt the ecosystem that much but Lions? and Elephants? Creatures that have nothing to keep them in check? What about our native fauna? This has disaster written all over it and I don't want to ever see lions in my back yard.
they said that about the cane toad, too.
 
  • #16
[b said:
Quote[/b] (JustLikeAPill @ Aug. 20 2005,10:47)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ALLOSAURZ @ Aug. 20 2005,8:20)]I think I have a slightly more practical solution... terraform mars. Move humans to Mars. Leave Earth the Hell alone! I don't think some introduced animals like camels and horses would hurt the ecosystem that much but Lions? and Elephants? Creatures that have nothing to keep them in check? What about our native fauna? This has disaster written all over it and I don't want to ever see lions in my back yard.
they said that about the cane toad, too.
We already have wild horses in America though and Camels aren't as likely to take over as the Cane toad. Look at the Dramadary (sp?) Camel in Australia. It was introduced and is thriving but isn't causing problems.
 
  • #17
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ALLOSAURZ @ Aug. 20 2005,8:20)]I think I have a slightly more practical solution... terraform mars. Move humans to Mars. Leave Earth the Hell alone! I don't think some introduced animals like camels and horses would hurt the ecosystem that much but Lions? and Elephants? Creatures that have nothing to keep them in check? What about our native fauna? This has disaster written all over it and I don't want to ever see lions in my back yard.
You and no one has the idea of what a seemingly 'harmless' plant or animal can do
Let me explain....
Years ago, england used ot have thousands of british bluebell colonies growing, but then someone thought about introducing the spanish bluebell
Everyone thought it was a harmless little plant with cute flowers. How wrong they were.
Over the years, the sanish bluebell spread fast, faster then the british bluebell, and then it hybernized and chocked out many british bluebell colonies, and as a result the british bluebell is now rare, much rarer then it was before

And the morale of the story is: You do NOT know what a seemingly 'harmelss' plant or animal can do to an ecosystem. Untill its too late to change things.

And thus, some mastermind also thought that knotweed would be a wonderful border plant......and guess what?
Its now considered one of the most invasive plants in the whole of Britain, and its a vicious weed that can take months, even years, to completely eradicate from the garden
The full effects of what it has done to the environment is not known, but I doubt it would be anything good considering how invasive it is
 
  • #18
[b said:
Quote[/b] (Starman @ Aug. 20 2005,3:17)]
[b said:
Quote[/b] (ALLOSAURZ @ Aug. 20 2005,8:20)]I think I have a slightly more practical solution... terraform mars. Move humans to Mars. Leave Earth the Hell alone! I don't think some introduced animals like camels and horses would hurt the ecosystem that much but Lions? and Elephants? Creatures that have nothing to keep them in check? What about our native fauna? This has disaster written all over it and I don't want to ever see lions in my back yard.
You and no one has the idea of what a seemingly 'harmless' plant or animal can do
Let me explain....
Years ago, england used ot have thousands of british bluebell colonies growing, but then someone thought about introducing the spanish bluebell
Everyone thought it was a harmless little plant with cute flowers. How wrong they were.
Over the years, the sanish bluebell spread fast, faster then the british bluebell, and then it hybernized and chocked out many british bluebell colonies, and as a result the british bluebell is now rare, much rarer then it was before

And the morale of the story is: You do NOT know what a seemingly 'harmelss' plant or animal can do to an ecosystem. Untill its too late to change things.

And thus, some mastermind also thought that knotweed would be a wonderful border plant......and guess what?
Its now considered one of the most invasive plants in the whole of Britain, and its a vicious weed that can take months, even years, to completely eradicate from the garden
The full effects of what it has done to the environment is not known, but I doubt it would be anything good considering how invasive it is
Chill I do not condone releasing any non native animal into the wild. I am against any and all forms of it. I just think though that if this is absolutely positively going to be done I'd rather scientists do it with camels instead of lions. Catch my drift? This is wrong no matter what the outcome is. It's just I don't picture camels and horses eating babies. Besides horses have already taken root over here and are thriving.
 
  • #19
if you go to the south theres kudzi EVERYWHERE. they brought it to prevent erosion, now it covers pastures, powerpoles/lines, and kills trees.

the kicker is it's edible and full of nutrients. we could feel alot of people with it but no one eats it. some ppl make jellies from it's flowers though.
 
  • #20
[b said:
Quote[/b] (TheAlphaWolf @ Aug. 18 2005,9:16)]and elephants kill more people yearly than lions do... and hippos more than any other african mammal (directly... rats don't count)
Hmmmm, I wodner why elepahants are like that? Perhaps somehting to do with people trying to rip out their tusks and attacking them?

and hippos are just vicious lol
 
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