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Help Temper Tantrum

carnivoure12

Hear the Call of Nepenthes
Hey guys,

Its officialy summer here in Toronto, and my Highland nepenthes are throwing temper tantrums. Eg: not pitcher, slowing pitchering down, losing pitchers etc.


Can anyone tell me a good way to cool down my terrarium? I tried Ice bottles, but they don't work very well, because they melt quickly. I can't bare to lose my brand new Hamata because of the warmer temps. Please help!
 
If you can manage it, simply remove the lid from the tank and mist frequently by hand. Alternatively, you can get gel ice packs of various sizes and place them inside. They last far longer than ice bottles . . .
 
I think I'll try the gel icepacks, since the lid and lighting system are one whole thing. Thanks bella!
 
You could also try a computer or hand-held fan if you don't mind lowering the humidity.
 
Without knowing the specifics about what kind of temperatures we are talking about, both inside and outside the terrarium during the day and night, it is difficult to evaluate and recommend specific solutions. Whenever you ask for help to correct a problem, do yourself and those trying to help, a favor, and give as much information as possible.

What are your current temperature ranges?
What temperatures are you trying to maintain?
What kind of lights do you use?
Is the grow chamber open or closed?

What makes you so certain it is temperatures that are causing problems? What other plants are we talking about besides N. hamata? You mention the N. hamata is brand new. What about the others?. Maybe they are just in transition trying to reestablish themselves.

Photos may help as well...
 
as long as it is cool at night. you wont have to worry about day temps much. my terrarium hovers around 85*F during the day. the glass is about 1/4in from the light tubes so it heats up. however. at night it drops to 65-70*F. i grow plants such as tentaculata, ephippiata, lowii, izumiae, aristolochiodes and heliamphora. all have been growing like this for almost 2 years now. they grow well and dont really turn away from how their normal growth rate stands(ie lowii is still really slow and tentaculata is pretty fast)

tentaculata and hamata are pretty darn similar(if not, the same species!) while i have never grown hamata, people who grow both say they grow them the same. some people have perfect highland conditions and others are a little warmer. those people still get very good results. hamatas arent really these babies made of thin glass from what i have heard. even when small. they grow fast and will get to a decent size quickly. some people just have bad luck. the key is consistency though.

Alex
 
Temperature ranges now go up to 30 degrees in the day, and drop to 24 degrees these are the latest. I'm trying to maintain Highland Conditions
13W Fluorescent lights
Closed

The species are N. Lady Pauline, N Spectabilis x aristolochioides, N. Muluensis x Lowii, Heliamphora Minor, Truncata Pasian. Only the ampullaria has done better. Only Hamata and Truncata are new enough to be suffering shock etc. The rest are several months older.


They were all pitchering, but slowed down and the lady pauline lost some ptchers. Tehy never skipped a beat in the winter time, but now they just don't want to do much, also i can physically feel my room is hotter.

DSC01851.jpg
 
For the old folks like me 30 celsius = 86 fahr., 24 celsius = 75 fahr.

None of those are really demanding highland temperature plants, except perhaps the N. muluensis x lowii.

Your night time (24c) is a bit high but there isn't much you can do to drop that if your room is warm. You are fighting a difficult battle since it is not a problem with excess heat from lighting systems etc. A little better air circulation may help. Open a window and let your room cool more. Try adding the frozen packs although that gets old fast.

Personally I really don't think the temperature is the problem. Keep in mind that it takes MONTHS for a Nepenthes to fully adapt to a new location. My guess is they were pitchering for a bit after you received them because they were already developing those pitchers and now they are at the point where they are adjusted and not happy.

So that leaves us with other potential problems that would cause long term unhappiness....

My first inclination is light level. #1 cause for poor pitcher production is lack of sufficient light levels and/or duration. You didn't indicate how long the lights are on but I would guess it is the usual 14-16hrs a day which should be fine. That leaves light intensity. I can't quite make out the lights but is there 2 13w CFL bulbs there? 13w bulbs are pretty weak. Even with 2 that is in my opinion not even close to sufficient. 2 13w bulbs will be giving you 1600lumens total. I would go with at least 23w bulbs which will boost your lumens to 3200. If you can go even bigger that would be better. Nepenthes are high light loving plants.

If space is an issue check out the new micro mini CFL. They are about half the size of the regular size CFL with the same light output. Not sure what wattages are available but more varieties are showing up on the market.

I think if you start there with lighting changes, try and reduce your night time temperatues a bit, and perhaps increase air circulation a little, you will see big improvements in the long run.
 
  • #10
Hmmm, I never really thought about lighting, because my plants would always get red coppery leaves! You can see it on the Muluesis x Lowii. Also the Heliamphora is turning nice and red, so i thought it was sufficient light, these 13W lights have lumen output of 26W. I bought these because of that advantage.


Some of the plants were making brand new leaves and they picther immediately. I'll take all you guys suggestions. Tony Thanks for the detailed help!
 
  • #11
Do you have any further information on the bulbs? Like actual lumen output etc? The wattage thing is only a measure of how much electricity they use and doesn't give much information on actual light levels.

I see you have the Heliamphora raised up which could account for the red flush on the new leaf. Under really intense lighting however, many Heliamphora will turn entirely red. The nectar spoons look a little underdeveloped (judging by your avatar pic.) Which also indicates insufficient lighting with Heliamphora.

Good luck with your adjustments. I would say that you are well on the road to CP master!

oh yeah... bear in mind that increasing light levels could potentially cause more challenges with heat from the bigger bulbs. The plants may also start using more water and nutrients in response to the increase in light/heat. SO whenever you make changes, keep a close eye on things until a balance returns.
 
  • #12
Thanks, I threw the package away! But it said that each 13W had aproximately 3600 Lumen output if I remember correctly. The heliamphoras latest picther is under developed because I had to move it somewhere else were it got less light. the older pics have better developed spoons because it was in that terrarium before. Right now its back and is sending up 2 new picthers with nicely developed spoons!


I guess they'll just have to adjust, because I don't think my parents would let me 'upgrade' Right now i'm misting them with refrigerated water.
 
  • #13
I've tried to do what you are trying to do now. It pretty much just doesn't work. If I was you I would sell or give away the Highlanders. They will almost certainly die in your conditions.

I even got real creative. I had a portable swamp cooler always blowing on the terrarium. I had a humidifer outside my window with a funnel ducktaped to the exhaust with a tube attached to it and blowing right next to the Ultra highlanders. No luck.

The main reason why is because there is a difference between the temps around the plants and the temps inside the plants, which is what really matters. Lack of air circulation, like in terrariums, means 80s is really like 90s to the plant.

I gave up on terrariums. They are death traps for highlanders, pure and simple. A better route to go is to use a growrack and then run a humidifier in your room, near your plants, all the time. At night, open your window and make sure your grow rack is next to it. Sunlight through your window is vastly superior to fluorescent lighting anyways. I use both though, unless it gets too hot then I turn the lights off.

I've found that most Neps grow fine, once they are established, in these conditions. Most Neps really only need a minimum of 50% humidity. Hamatas though, probably will suffer still. For example my Talangs grow but won't pitcher in the heat.
 
  • #14
Hmm dying off is quite drastic, they grow very well when its winter here, i'm sure they'll do well, plus they grow just fine in my terrarium. I only have them in there because they're still small. I think it would be more risky to change their conditons while going through this transition period.

My Apartment doesn't get much light through the windows, so i can't use them...
 
  • #15
Just my two cents on your lighting situation... I purchased 3- 35watt(this is the fluorescent rating) daylight bulbs and each one of those only totaled to about 2100 lumens each... I would think you might want to look into some new lighting my friend.

And I just did a quick search on a few of my sites that sell bulbs and I'm not finding anything in the 13watt range (~60watt incand.) that has over 900 lumens... not trying to say you didn't have something like that but just more info for you.
 
  • #16
Easiest solution for me to grow highland & cool loving plants is to affix a 4" PC fan to a 4" flexible duct tube and have the fan pulling cold air from outside the window into the tube and then into the terrarium. This drops the temps considerably while the lights are on and dramatically when the lights are off. If it's hot summertime I put the intake fan infront of my A/C so the nighttime temps will drop right.

You will want to humidify the incoming air for Neps so I used an ultrasonic humidifier who had it's output plugged with a 2" diameter tube. This tube intersects the 4" flexible air duct somewhere along the line before the incoming air empties into the terrarium so that the fresh cool air is well fogged. Attach the ultrasonic humidifier to a humidistat or a timer so it doesn't run constant. This makes fussing and fudging numbers and "attempting" to grow them a non-issue. You will grow them because you're giving them good temps/humidity.

You need to upgrade the lighting and if your plants grow decently they will outgrow the space you show very soon. N. hamata is a very rapid grower if it's happy/settled in. Build a simple 4 ft x 2 ft x 2 ft box and cover in plastic then you can put 4 - 6 x 40 watt fluorescent tubes over them (180-240 watts about 14000-18000 lumens). This will give you tons of space & bright light compared to what you've got now and a much more stable environment for these finicky plants.

Even with all this my highland plants slowed down, lost their oldest pitchers and refused to produce new pitchers in July & August. That's the way it is with warm weather & highlanders and just goes to show you how much these plants require proper conditions to thrive and not just survive.
 
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