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Heliamphora + utricularia

Wanted to ask your opinion. Would it be possible to grow a Heliamphora heterodoxa and Uricularia longifolia in the same pot? This is for a museum display, and they are attempting to do a few multiple planted setups that have similar media, moisture and light requirements. If not, are there any other Utrics that might be compatible? I'm looking for South American CP's that wouldn't require a dormancy with the Heli being the focal point. Any information is appreciated, Thanks.
 
Well, I haven't grown longifolia, but I hear it needs a dry dormancy. I'm sure that the utric masters will give you a few names or suitable species.
 
I wasn't sure where to start this thread <LOL>. I assumed more people are likely to read this section than the Utric section, upping my chances for a response. I think you are right about the dormancy however.

Thanks
 
I don't believe U. longifolia requires a dormancy period to survive long term. I've only had mine for two years though, and have never induced dormancy; I don't have flowers either however. The dormancy is required for flowers. The only problem I see you having with growing a Heli with U. longifolia is that the U. longifolia will take over and fill the pot. This may or may not have an impact on the Heli. You also may never be able to completely separate the Utric from the Heli when it's time to repot.

Just my 2 cents,
Crystal
 
Thank you Crissytal. I just read in another thread (sorry, I lost it before I remembered to copy it) that another grower has his longifolia in a Heli medium, LFS, vermiculite and small orchid bark. The moisture levels aren't mentioned however. It sounds like U. longifolia can grow in a variety of conditions. If I did grow them together, would it be wet enough for the Utric?

I had thought of the entanglement that might occur long term, and just thought of another idea. There is a bonsai pot that is designed with two compartments. One side is drained, and the other holds water for a lake effect. (This is becoming an Utric thread) Would the longifolia thrive in the undrained side, letting the water level rise and fall? This would also keep the plants contained.

This can be moved if anybody feels it is in the wrong section of the forum.
 
Yes it would be plenty moist enough for the U. longifolia. I always describe watering this Utric like a Nepenthes, which is moist but not soggy. It can survive in a variety of media types. I have found that for me, in my conditions, it grows best in a mix much like you describe with orchid bark, LFS, maybe some perlite and cypress mulch thrown in. I also have some growing in a peat and sand mix. It seems to grow faster in a more open mix like mentioned above (for me).

I don't think you'd need anything fancy like the bonsai pot you describe. U. longifolia can be grown much drier than other Utrics. It's not required that they stand in water and it's probably best that they don't. I'm not sure what to tell you about the entanglement issue. It may not be an issue at all. I guess it just comes down to trying it.

Good luck with what you decide!
Crystal
 
I don't believe U. longifolia requires a dormancy period to survive long term.

Right on! :bigthumpup:

The dormancy is required for flowers.

WHAT? :) It is absolutely not necessary for flowers. At least for my clone.

Lambdlth,

I have spares of U. longifolia if you'ld like.

But U. nelumbifolia goes really well with helis. I've actually got one with it's tendrils in a helis pitchers, without my help! The tendrils are starting new plants in the heli.. kinda cool.

I've got spares of that one too.
 
Btw, this utric loves it soggy. It can tolerate dry, but it grows much faster flooded, then drying out a little.

Many people are just realizing some of these macro utrics can take a lot wetter conditions than people generally expect.

Here's my proof:

IMG_4298.jpg


IMG_4172.jpg
 
two (long) words: Utricularia humboldtii. SHOWY SHOWY flowers, a very unique seed system (make for a nice little snippet for the museum info plaque), and i believe U. humboldtii and Heliamphora heterodoxa grow together in the wild.

Maybe keep the heli all by its self as a focal and plant the U. humboldtii in a nice Broncchinia (i know this happens in the wild, a la Barry Rice's book?)?


Hey Jeff,

Is that your GH? What is it made of (the poly type/metal?) ? Looks good!
 
  • #10
Obregon - I have looked all over the internet for U humboltii (for my personal collection) to no avail. They seem to be available everywhere but the US. I believe that U. humboltii and U. quelchii(?) are the only Utrics that I have made a positive connection to Helis in the wild. The museum is on a budget though, therefore I have been seeking more readily available plants.

Jefforever - You may recall, you are one of the people who nurtured me through the stress of a recently acquired U reniformis (which is leafless again, although the tuber(?) has quadrupled in length and looks very healthy). I actually purchased that plant for this exhibit, but decided to keep it, as it has proven to be really finicky. I thought about U nelumbifolia but feared it might have an erratic growth habit like the reniformis. For all I know, U longifolia has the same habits. I did think longifolia would be an interesting addition to show the diversity of foliage in the Utric family (and that plant definitely has impressive foliage). If it flowered, well, that would be awesome, but I am focussing on the leaf structure, being (I've heard, LOL) these plants can be tricky to flower. By the way, those picture blow my socks off.....amazing!

Thank you all for your help, if anybody has more to say, please include it. I'm not done till I've heard it all.

Jeff I will PM you, thank you very much.
 
  • #11
Alright, I have a lot to cover here and not a lot of time so I am just going to dive in and I apologize in advance if I come off terse

I don't believe U. longifolia requires a dormancy period to survive long term.

You are correct, it does not.

The dormancy is required for flowers.

In some cases yes in others no. There are at least 4 distinct clones of this species in cultivation. One clone (var. forgettiana) is very free blooming and does not require a rest phase (I do not like the term dormancy cause the plants are never in a state of inactive growth, just slowed growth.) Two of the remaining clones do require this rest phase to consistently flower and the last one is squirrelly, behaving differently in different peoples collections.

The only problem I see you having with growing a Heli with U. longifolia is that the U. longifolia will take over and fill the pot. This may or may not have an impact on the Heli.

This will not be much of a problem

You also may never be able to completely separate the Utric from the Heli when it's time to repot.

If the goal is to grow them together I doubt this will be a problem either

Yes it would be plenty moist enough for the U. longifolia. I always describe watering this Utric like a Nepenthes, which is moist but not soggy. It can survive in a variety of media types. I have found that for me, in my conditions, it grows best in a mix much like you describe with orchid bark, LFS, maybe some perlite and cypress mulch thrown in. I also have some growing in a peat and sand mix. It seems to grow faster in a more open mix like mentioned above (for me).

Again, this is going to depend on the clone. Each one seems to have a pretty broad range of tolerances and, while there is a large area of overlap between them all there are still outlier conditions. For example, one clone will happily grow fully submerged while another will rot out under those same conditoins.

WHAT? :) It is absolutely not necessary for flowers. At least for my clone.

As I said above, this depends on the clone.

But U. nelumbifolia goes really well with helis. I've actually got one with it's tendrils in a helis pitchers, without my help! The tendrils are starting new plants in the heli.. kinda cool.

Just an FYI, plants growing in Heli pitchers are significantly weaker than those under other conditions. Seems something in the Heli is a bit detrimental

Btw, this utric loves it soggy. It can tolerate dry, but it grows much faster flooded, then drying out a little.

Again, this depends on the clone. I would avoid making such sweeping statements. It just gets people into trouble

Many people are just realizing some of these macro utrics can take a lot wetter conditions than people generally expect.

Here's my proof:

Remember that U. longifolia is wholly unrelated to the rest of the "macro" Utrics. What it can tolerate and what the Orchidioides and Iperua can tolerate are not the same thing. The only Iperua that is as tolerant as longifolia is nephropylla.

Maybe keep the heli all by its self as a focal and plant the U. humboldtii in a nice Broncchinia (i know this happens in the wild, a la Barry Rice's book?)?

U. humbo does not really do well in bromeliads. Yes, it will grow in them but it does much better when grown terrestrial.

Obregon - I have looked all over the internet for U humboltii (for my personal collection) to no avail. They seem to be available everywhere but the US.

They are here in the States, you just have to hunt.

I believe that U. humboltii and U. quelchii(?) are the only Utrics that I have made a positive connection to Helis in the wild.

Not quelchii, it really cannot tolerate overly wet conditions. The bromeliad associated Utrics are mostly humbo and nelumbi though reni have also been found in them on rare occasions


And, just a quick answer for you. Atlanta Botanical has U. longi growing in among the Helies in the highland display greenhouse so you should be fine having the two together in your set up.
 
  • #12
Thanks for clearing that up Pyro. I must have the more difficult one, as it is picky and doesn't flower freely. I had forgotten there was more than one clone; my mistake on that.

Crystal
 
  • #13
Wow - thank you everybody. I am going to dive in and start the grand experiment...although it has been done successfully before, not much of an experiment.

The humboltii is just too elusive. One day, I'm going to place a massive international order, invest in all the permits and $1,000 later have my $12.00 Humboltii. Wish me luck!!!

I appreciate everybodies advice, input and education. This is awesome, thankx
 
  • #14
there is also more than one clone of humboldtii in the states.........and i do believe there is a big difference between the two....
 
  • #15
The humboltii is just too elusive. One day, I'm going to place a massive international order, invest in all the permits and $1,000 later have my $12.00 Humboltii. Wish me luck!!!

Just an FYI, it is possible to make an order from one of the overseas vendors who carries U. humbo and not need the permits... He has a US distributor for that reason ;)
 
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