CO2?

[<>-{VIRUS}-<>They]

I read an article at CPzine  about how to make a CO2 machine here.
http://www.cpzine.com/article.aspxcid=14&y=2001&m=10&d=29
I was wandering does it really help that much? Would it be worth having to grow N. rajah? Or any other Nepenthes for that matter. Oh yeah and Jeff I enjoyed your article on N. rajah : ). Plan on getting one as soon as I can move some of my plants around.

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

I tried that and my palnts did pick up growth but I discontinued my use of it as my whole tank was smelly from the Vingar and it was really stinking more after the reaction was bubbling over the sides once in a while and it REALLY stunk then so I actually had to clean my whole tank out and re start it cause of the smell. It does work but I suggest putting the whole setup over/on a drip pan incase it does drip. Then it won't ruin your soil/plant in your are you have placed it.

 

[<>-{VIRUS}-<>They]

I also read this article about a CO2 machine and was wandering if it would work out of water.

http://www.carnivorousplants.org/cpn/samples/Cult284CO2.htm

 

[nepenthes gracilis]

I don't know as that is a setup designed for the use in water. A good idea though!

 

[swords]

yes, the yeast method of making CO2 works for plain terrariums or aquariums. I use them on all my setups (planted aquariums & CP terrariums) except the highland one which has a fan and airconditioner and the Co2 is quickly dissipated so it's not worth it but on my sealed lowland tanks it works great.

The yeast method doesn't stink either (til you dump it out) because you're basically just brewing grain alcholol with the yeast method. If you'd add hops and some barley when you set it up you can drink it when the Co2 is used up!  

 JK!

When using the yeast method be sure and dump out the entire contents of the bottle (and rinse) every 21-30 days because the ingredients become inactive after this amount of time.  I also like to use 2liter plastic juice bottles (or gallon size gatorade containers) because the plastic is more rigid than 2 liter soda bottles and the bases are flat and far less prone to tipping over.
Also, do not use glass bottles because the gas is produced unevenly somedays a lot somedays not as much-plastic breathes slightly weheras glass breaks. A wall full of yeast is something wifes and girlfriends get upset about pretty quickly (cos you DO have to repaint)!

Have fun!

 

[RamPuppy]

Swords, as I was reading this, I KNEW you would get to it before me! Darn it!

I used to inject my 55gal aquarium with a yeast reactor... then one day it tipped, I was in a hurry, so I put it back upright... and it siphoned... oh what a mess....

long story short.. I went out and bought a professional grade CO2 reactor the next day... much better.

I am going to drive out to my parents property today, pick it up from storage, and slip the hose into my tank and smile.

 

[swords]

I haven't tried a pressurized CO2 unit before. It would be fantastic for a plant only terrarium or greenhouse but I worry about using pressurized CO2 on a planted aquarium (with fish) because of the number of accidental wipeouts (Ph meter goes bonkers and the CO2 overloads the water), whereas a yeast generator can't make too much to overload the water but as you know-it can screw up and back siphon into the tank (and you can't get the same optimum CO2 level as with the pressurized unit). I store my yeast generators beneath their tanks and if I'm using then on a fish aquarium I add a Tetra check valve between the tank and the bottle to keep the water from mixing with the generator.

 

[RamPuppy]

Sword, I am suprised you haven't done more research.

Co2 can reach saturation levels in the water without displacing oxygen... the reason many aquarists have had 'wipe outs' is because they believed that plants like animals, only respirated one way. Aquatic plants respirate co2 in and oxygen out during the day, but at night, this process is reversed, and they become oxygen users...

The way to do it is low tech, forget all the fancy ph meters and so on, and just start your flow off nice and slow, super super slow... start working your way up until you start seeing algae form, you should do this over the period of a few months, so your plants can adapt to the new source of nutrients and out compete the algae... once you start seeing algae, back off a little, and youve found the perfect spot.

Now, you dont even need to turn your Co2 off at night, it's very very cheap to recharge, so leave it running. but at night, stir your tank with a couple air stones to keep everyone happy, put a pump on a timer, on when the lights go out, off when they come on... co2 starts building back up in the water and by 'noon' you will see oxygen saturation occur, in the form of tiny bubbles rising off the leaves of your plants, it's quite an incredible site...

makes me want to go out and set up my tank again.

Now, one thing to remember, is I live in San Antonio, with water so hard it requires chewing. Seriously... I can't even measure my water hardness with a test kit, it's off the scale... so no matter how much Co2 I pump in, it doesn't matter...

another thing to consider, is that PH really DOES NOT MATTER all that much with most fish (yes, some are very sensetive to it) but in a standard mixed tropicals tank, it does not matter. Why? When PH goes south, amonia and other chemicals start reacting differently.... they become detrimental to the fish... forming anoxic pockets, eating away at their slime coating, damaging their gills... but here is the thing, if you keep a really clean tank, and with plants, you have no choice BUT TO KEEP IT CLEAN.... keep it clean with low amonia, and the ph is secondary... it really only matters with the doozies.. like discus and arrowanas...


you wanna know the kicker? I used to have an arrowana... a beautiful silver... thinking back on it... I think it was getting gill curl BECAUSE of my water quality outof the faucet... someday, when I have a 300 gallon plus... I will get another... fill it with nice water. RO with RO RIGHT, and I will have much fun...

course... I need to do a reef system next...

 

[swords]

I've been researching and running planted aquariums for quite some time so yes, I know that plants respiration reverses at night-that's when the wipeouts occur in planted fishtanks is at night. I also know that there is no magic event that happens if your PH is "7.0" as all the fish shops tell you, I've known that for years, of course the fish shops will tell you otherwise!

What I was getting at is that I dislike & distrust relying upon equiptment when (Fish) lives are at stake, and the DIY generator generates small "safe" amounts of CO2 that will benefit the plants - I get heavy pearling on my plants by using the DIY generator (each plant looks like a tiny airstone is inside of it) But a DIY generator will not generate enough CO2 to harm the fish at night, that's all I was meant. Sorry I didn't make it clearer. I wouldn't mind having a pressurized unit for a greenhouse or grow room though!

Did you know that the common $20 "silver arrowana" that is sold in the US is actually an Arapima gigas from the amazon which can attain lengths of 15 feet. The true red & gold asian arrowanas from Taiwan run about $450 - $4500 and only get about 4 feet. If you have a fish shop with a good book section check out Jurassic Fishes by TFH books if you have an interest in big fish. I want a paddlefish myself, and the fish shop did have them last summer but it's eventual 250 lbs and 6 ft length (and diet of planktonic foods) kept me from getting that fish, even though it was only $19,99.

 

[RamPuppy]

Sorry Swords, The Silver arrowana (and the Black ARrowana) are full fledged arrowanas, though they are from a different family than the asians... which btw, for those of you interested, are completely and utterly illegal to import into the US, they are a CITIES protected species.

Swords, Arapaima are huge, some consider them to be the largest fresh water fish in the world, and are related to arrowanas, but are not arrowanas themselves... if you look closely at photos, you will see aside from the massive difference in size, that tha arapaima is more shovel nosed, while the Arrowana has a very thin head.

It very well may be that many silvers in the US are actually Arapaimas, in which case, I hope their owners have very large ponds (with fences to keep small children, dogs, and cats away). But all the silvers I have seen are true Osteoglossum.

Silver, Black, AFrican and Australia Arrowanas (Osteoglossum) have a tounge with small teeth in it, and a rough bony plate on the top of their mouths. when they eat their food, the use the tounge teeth to hold the prey and rend it to bits along the bony plate... Silver arrowanas can co-exist with anything big enough not to fit in their mouths, Jardini's are territorial and like to nibble on things...

Asians, the Gold Crossback being the most desireable if I remember right, are gorgeous fish as well, but I have always been captivated by the silver from the Amazon... there is just something beautiful about it.

I am also fascinated that during flood seasons this fish is known to jump from the water and consume birds sitting on low lieing branches.

just as fun, for those of you interested in this discourse, All Arrowanas and Arapima are mouth brooders, much like a kangaroo gives birth and keeps the joey in it's pouch, the Arrowana gives birht, then the male keeps the young save in it's mouth. It will not eat during this time, though many suspect that it swallows it's young by accident every now and again... (Whats one baby compared to hundreds?)

Most of the Silver arrowanas you see in the stores in the US were caught when fishermen killed the father fish, and scooped the brood out. The Arrowana is a stable in many south american diets, and it used to be that these young fish died, once they fishermen learned their value on the world aquarium market however, they began selling the young. Most fisheries and nurseries will grow them out until their yolk sack is gone. If your interested in buying any of these fish, first, make sure you have the skill to keep it, their water requirements are tremendous both in space (many hundreds of gallons) and quality, your looking at a 300 gallon minimum to keep an adult healthy and happy. If the tank is to narrow, the fish will get spinal curvature... so it really needs to be huge.


Osteoglossum bicirrhosum - Silver Arrowana - http://web.singnet.com.sg/~deswong/silver.htm

http://www.aquariumfish.net/catalog_pages/wild/arowanas.htm

Arapaima giga - http://www.newarkpc.com/guyana/arapaima.htm

 

[RaW$VENUS.FLY.TRAP.beginner]

asian fish
found in the great lakes
can eat all the ecosystem here, can jump 2 metres out of water, so birds are in its diet, grows to 1.2 metres and can be 260 lbs average, very bad thing, has been found twice in great lakes in past week

 

[swords]

Most shops here (in Mpls/st paul) sell their arrowanas with yolk sack still attached (World of Fish does not). I suppse that's how they all get the super cheap $19,00 price tag.

I have no interest in keeping large fishes. Well I do but I never will unless I have a large pond inside a greenhouse or something. I really wish that shops would not sell them, most of these large fishes purchases are done by impulse shoppers who have no clue what they're buying when they get an arrowana, then when its too large to be taken out of the 55 gallon tank it was bough for it suffers and dies. I've even seen one unscrupulous fish shop selling "Dwarf Pacus" there's no such thing, only "young pacus"....

I keep & breed killifishes which are usually in the 1-3" size range but have awesome colors. The Aphyosiemon austerale (all varieties) is my favorite then the A. gardneri (steel blue var.). I don't care for the Asian species (Apolohelius - spelling on this??)as the pairs I have seem very agressive and are avid jumpers. I've noticed that long fiber sphagnum works great for my Nepenthes and in the bottom of my killie tanks! Grows aquatic plants like crazy too if you mix it with flourite or kitty litter clay and some granulated Laterite as a substrate.

A bit off topic I suppose! Hope nobody minds too much!

 

[RamPuppy]

I think were the only ones here swords!

I think Killifish are pretty darn cool.

I agree with pet shops selling big fish. I have one I go to here, and it is the only place I go, because 1) I know the owner, and 2) I have seen him on multiple occasions refuse to sell a fish to someone who either A) Lacked experience or B) didn't have a good enough setup.

Since I knew him, he actually came over and inspected my setup before I bought the arrowana, and while we both knew I would have to get a bigger tank in a year or two (I was going to) he sold me the arrowana... well, life changes, and the 300 I was going to buy never found a place in the budget, so I sold the arrowana back before it got to big, and thankfully, his gill curl went away since the shop used RO water with RO right...

Dwarf paci IS a load of tripe... but I tend to stay away from fish that would consider my planted tanks a vegetable buffet ya know?

Right now all I am keeping are 4 fan tail oranda's... more for my wifes pleasure than mine... I am making plans to build a book case with a 200 gal equivalent terrarium in it, (glass only in front, seal the sides bottom top and back with acrylic resin paint) if that works out, I want to sell my 55 show (It's in great condition) and buy a 75 gallon tall hex. I don't have room for a 300 in this apartment... when I the 75 up I plan on building a minature coral reef system in it...

then, someday, when I have the house, 300 gallon tank going in.

will probably be an amazon river system with a large arrowana in it... and if I do two... will probably put discus in the other one. Rio Negro style.

 

[swords]

Women just love the goldfish don't they? Since I got my first fishtank my girlfriends have said "what about goldfish?". Maybe cos they're "cute" or something!

My favorite fish (looks and personality wise) was my pair of dragon gobys (or "violet gobys"). They would eat from my hand and got very large (about 12" when I sold them to a friends fish shop (he said he'd never seen such good looking well fed dragon gobys so that made me happy) but they dug up my plants making burrows (or something) so I ended up getting rid of them. I later found out they are brackish water fish but aren't strictly brackish so long as the water is clean (which explained why they thrived in my planted tank). If I ever get a large tank (the gobys may get 24") and are meat eaters so they need a heavy duty tank and filtration. I just love their huge heads and tiny eyes! (and of course their look of a chinese dragons when they slither up the side of the tank to eat some bloodworms.

I like a responsible fish shop. there are a few here in MN, among them World of Fish and Wet pets (my pals shop) who sold me my first fish when I was a little boy and still has a nice family run shop - they sell my sexable killifish juveniles too.

If you're going into a reef tanks Have you seen these books?
The Conscientious Marine Aquarist (M. Fenner)
Natural reef Aquariums (J. Tullock)
Aquarium Corals (E. Borneman)
They're published by Microcosm/TFH but they're much better than the usual TFH books, more along the lines of the Nepenthes of Borneo & Sumatra for reef tanks. About 400pg each (about $50 ea).

 

[RamPuppy]

I had a dragon goby once and just like you, they tore up my tank, pulled out all manner of plants and shoved them under a log to make a nice soft bed. (must be where they got the name dragon)

have you ever kept a Bicher fish? talk about an awesome predator... very much like a goby in size and shape, but imho, very much cooler... can get a lot bigger...

aside from my arrowana, my bicher was my favorite, quickly followed by my black knife... which I loved, but could never see cause, well, knife fish are shy and all!

 

[BigBaldBob]

hi
what does imho mean ?
i

 

[RamPuppy]

In my Humble Opinion

 

[swords]

Yes, the Armored Bichir is indeed a very nice looking fish! Theres a good deal of info on the Polypterus (Bichir) genus in the Jurassic Fishes book. It seems the Japanese have a penchant for these humungous fishes as JF is a compilation from about 7 Japanese keeprs of these large prehistoric fishes.

Did you ever try the clear PVC tube trick for your knife fish? Put a clear length of PVC plumbing tube large enough for the fish to easily swim into and feel safe and hidden when he's actually right in front of you and visible. They "hide" because they can't see well and need to feel the reverbations of the mild electrical current by their undulating fin from some close quarters or else the fish don't feel at ease. I've never bought one bceause I don't like trying to fit a large fish in a fishtank (no matter how large the tank).
As an example of the ratio of water to fish  in my tanks I have 25 gallon tank with 3 pairs of 2"  killifish in it and a 40 gallon tank with 2 pair of 3" killies and 7 red phantom tetras (1 1/2"). the rest is plants. I had more fish and tanks but the CPs have invaded them and the fish found new homes (no, not the septic tank!

)  ha!

 

[steveo]

I've kept a lot of fish, but my favorite is still freshwater and ubiquitous--the B. splendens varieties. I kept one by itself (with plants) in a 20 gallon tank just to watch it fearlessly drift around and explore.

Will water-dwelling CPs get along with fish? A single fish?

Steve

 

[RamPuppy]

well, as long as your fish aren't herbiovores, and they dont breed, then yeah, I think it would be fine, assuming the proper conditions can be met for the plant.

Swords, I thought about using a piece of clear piping to get him to come out, but I just couldn't do it...

I am a huge Takashi Amano fan, and would like to think my tanks approached something near the magnificent art work he has wrought... I couldnt bring myself to put a piece of PVC in there, even if it was clear...

besides... I tricked him... knifes are also nocturnal hunters, so it was a special treat for me to through about 200 ghost shrimp in the tank, turn the lights off for a few hours, and then but the barest of illumination into the tank... while the arrowana and bicher were chilling, you could see the knife, plowing through the water like a ghost... barely more than a sillouhette, but it was gorgeous, and very peacefull...

all this talk makes me want to sneak a 2 or 300 gal up into my apartment... alas... money, and space, are lacking!