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I REALLY want a clipeata but no one seems to have it. I have contacted Andreas and he's fresh out. Malaysiana Tropicals - no go.

Anyone have any idea?
Price is no object.

Cheers, fatboy.
Think your going to have to just hang in there.. Only one I know that has them is Andreas. I have had 30 of them on order with him for the past 6 months ....

On a side note I am in the process of figuring out all the red tape to export out of the US. Hopefully by the end of the year I will have all the licenses etc and be able to ship international.

Hi Tony

That's why no one's got any!

Yeah I asked Andreas a few months ago and he said none even looking likely. I guess it's hard to get seed as there's very little left. Such a shame as it's such a cool plant.

From your comments re exporting from the US I assume you already have a few plants?
How bout I fly over there and pick them up?
Just kidding but PLEASE let me know as soon as you have some available and can send them.

Cheers, fatboy.
Unfortunately I don't have any spare plants... I bought One a little while back when I was growing them as a hobby. I am looking into possible other sources. I also have sent out a letter to Andreas as many species I ordered did not come in with the last shipment and many that did were in much less numbers than I was hoping for. I have not received an update either on when those left out of the last shipment might be arriving.. that includes the clipeata. So we will have to see....

Tony I have had an idea, and that is that there may be a few Japanese collectors have clipeata.
I have it on pretty good authority that a couple of groups of Japanese collectors went to Gunung Kelam about 10 years ago and got a whole lot, in fact it sounded to me like they were at least partially responsible for the rarity of the plant in it's native habitat. Their CP society is quite closed though and they tend to be secretive about what they have. I have had some communication with a few groups that have done trips to Sumatra.

My wife is Japanese and I can read and write enough to do a search on the net. If anything turns up I'll email them and ask about plants for sale. I want one or two myself and I'll let you know if I can locate any more.

Cheers, Troy Davis (aka fatboy).
if anyone ever get's a hold of any... let me know...
Hi Troy,

Sounds interesting. I talked to a couple people already and found out.. 1. There isn't any clipeata in Australia, at least available for sale... 2. Malesiana Tropicals had a bunch but they all turned out to be hybrid.. Not sure if they have a new batch that is pure yet.

I am still waiting for another possible source here in the US to get back to me, and one overseas. I am also waiting to see if Andreas has some set aside since I ordered them back in the beginning of March or if he is just plain out.

If anyone has any luck locating fresh seed, I have the facilities to handle it in vitro...

I am also fiddling around with trying to get tissue into culture. Once I get all the rest of the hatches battened down and the snow really starts flying I will get back to working on culture info on the website and putzing around in the lab with TC.


If you want to put on a list to be notified when I have some available drop me an email or post here. I will need a name and email address for the list.
Tony, Ram

I emailed a couple of people in Japan so I'll see if anything turns up.
As another alternative, any info on there being plants left on Kelam at all?
I can, and have considered, going there (flights are pretty cheap from here - it's all domestic) and trying to collect some seed. I'd send it all to you Tony if I could get some. You would get a better success rate than me without lab facilities.

I don't know about plants left or not out in the wild... I did get a message back from Rob Cantley. He is working on getting a pure strain already in culture and hopes to have some available in 2003. ;< I would imagine if there were plants out there to collect seed he would be attempting that also since a fair number of plants on his list are seed grown. I am still waiting to hear back from Andreas and a couple other sources yet.

  • #10
No guaranty if this is 100% true !!!! (it was told to me...)

N. clipeata was first introduced in Germany by Paul D. and there was at least one flowering female plant in the botanical garden of Munich.
One of the three flower stalks was used to "produce" the "true" N. clipeata the other two produced hybrid seed, where one species (clipeata x ?) looks extremly similar to the real N. clipeata if the plants are young.

A. Wistubas plants are from the "true" N. clipeata the hybrid seeds have been distributed throughout the world and plants from this seed were (are ?) often offered as the "true" N. clipeata.

I know (and have vistited) some people in Germany who are cultivating N. clipeata (some of the plants once digged out from nature many years ago, some grown from tissue culture and there are male and female plants, so chances are high that they can be established in culture)

From the site where N. clipeata was first discovered some years later ALL !!!! plants have been digged out from "collectors" and there are now only very few (2 ?) new discovered places where only very few plants live.

(Charles Clarkes first book is talking about 15 (!!!) living plants !)
  • #11
WOuldn't it be great if this plant eventually becomes so popular in cultivatian that poachers lose interest in it? Then, once that is done, perhaps some noble people can re-introduce the plants into the wild, strengthening their gene pool by returning the young of plants that were removed a long time ago.

I personally think that would be great.

I would like to encourage responsibility in this area though... if youve only got one Nepenthes, and your a beginner, please don't snap up one of these plants, they are so rare, even in cultivation, that they should be grown by people with a lot of experience who can help spread it throughout our community. (No offense, but every dead plant means a lot for this species.)

I talked to a grower in USA recently apparently he had a single 3" Clipeata, from this andreas guy, it expired on him though he tried everything he could to keep it alive.
  • #12
Just got a message back from an inquiry to a lab who I thought had them on his list at one time. He has removed them because there is controversy as to if they are true clipeata or not..

Some interesting info also Martin!

  • #13
Well.... some interesting info on the Japanese front too.

I have a favourable response from one Japanese collector that claims to have some clipeata for sale. I got their reply about 15 minutes ago and have just emailed them asking to know how many, the size and price. I'll have to get some details on the origin of the plants too, so it seems.

I'll post these details as soon as they come to hand. Rest assured Tony (and then RAM) you are next in line IF I get a few.

Cheers, fatboy.
  • #14
well thanks for keeping me in mind Fatboy, If they have any to sell, and enough to get to me, I am sure it's going to be hellishly expensive... but I will definatley be interested...
  • #15
I don't grow this plant (I mostly grow highland Neps), but it is not very hard to cultivate.
I have seen N. clipeata several times now in cultivation (last week a really big one !) and they seem to grow well under lowland or intermediate conditions.

N. clipeata does not need a spezial substrat as someone may believe because of the natural habitat...

  • #16
thanks for the info martin.
  • #17
Don't mean to offend anyone, but I *strongly* urge everyone not to field collect seeds, as it takes several years for a plant to mature. This can led to a generation gap in the habitat if too much seed is collected. If everyone collects a few seeds, the population could be decimated as a long-term consequence. I would hate see these plants to become extinct in wild as so many other species have.
  • #18

Appreciate your sentiments but it seems the point is mute. None left to collect from what I can gather.

I would also have to say that you need to balance the harm you are potentially doing in causing the generation gap that you mention with the fact that there are (read "were" ) almost no plants left in the wild anyway. I've spoken with a few people that have been to the clipeata site and they were relatively easy to collect, some of them were on steep rock faces but were not completely uncollectable - obviously. The plants were only on one, isolated site and therefore extremely vulnerable to being wiped out. Indonesia has absolutely ZILCH policing of it's national parks in most areas and many people that I have met from the forestry department are completely unaware of the existence of these plants, let alone being aware of the fact that they are on the verge of extinction in the wild.
This combination makes me think that it is better to collect the seed and propogate as many of the plants as possible for distribution to as many people as possible. The effect of this would be to reduce the demand for wild collected plants and also, as Ram pointed out, will also ensure that there ARE still plants left that could be reintroduced at a later time. Better than leaving the seeds and having the entire population collected by some unscrupulous collectors - no?
  • #19
Fatboy, wasn't there recently another population of Clipeata found recently? I could have sworn I heard that, but I could be mistaken, it could be a totally different nepenthes I am thinking of.

So Your saying that that's it? That all known clieata in the wild is gone? (referring to your mute point comment)

If so it is a sad day... hopefully there is enough in culture to spread so that we can preserve this plant.

Any more word from the japanese sources? And have you found out if it's pure? Better to have a hybrid of it than nothing at all I guess...
  • #20

I was being general w/ my beliefs regarding field collecting, not specifically towards N. clipeata.

While your points are valid, I'm not sure if it is the best solution for the N. clipeata problem.  Collecting seeds is not as dramatic as removing plants from the wild, as the success rate of seed germination is naturally low.  The scenario I was referring to is regarding people justifying field collecting for their own needs -- whether it is for monetary gain, or personal enjoyment gained from growing the plant.  

I understand what you are trying to do.  It is a difficult problem, and can be debated from many points of view.  Here are some concerns that I'm going to throw out in the open, that I don't have the best answers for...  What should be the criteria for field collecting?  Who should be responsible for field collecting?  How do we know that other N. clipeata field collectors didn't the same intent and purpose as you have?  Who is going to reintroduce the plants to the wild?  If grown in captivity, how do we ensure that plant receives the same environmental conditions as in the wild (especially for reintroduction purposes)?  How do we ensure the species remain pure?  How much should be field collected without decimating the natural population?

The best solution is to protect the land where the species are naturally found, and it seems that this is not possible for N. clipeata.  If some natural event (not directly/indirectly caused by man) forces a specie to die in it's natural habitat, so be it.

N. clipeata and many other species have been cultivated. While it can be hard to locate and possibly expensive to buy, it is still possible to find one.  My purpose is to raise awareness on the issues surrounding field collecting.  Any judgement call should be made from the specie's (whether it be plant's or animal's) point of view, not anthrogenic.



(Edited by Emesis at 11:55 am on Oct. 30, 2001)

(Edited by Emesis at 11:56 am on Oct. 30, 2001)