TerraForums Venus Flytrap, Nepenthes, Drosera and more talk
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nepenthes gracilis
Nepenthes Specialist
Hi Warlock, well N. x Mixta is very similar to N. x Miranda...there's still debate on if N. x Miranda isn't a mislabeled form of N. x Mixta I hear. But as for general care, grow as an intermediate (temps are not of concern), lots of light, decent humidity and a nice loose soil mix. Not hard at all.
Dustin and Everyone,
N. Mixta is an old hybrid. There are several cultivars of it around, most are male, but there once were some rare female clones (such as Mixta 'Sanguinea'). As you know, these plants come from tc., and all tc Nepenthes come from seed. Only recently has some success been achieved in mericloning Nepenthes. The only way N. Miranda could possibly be a Mixta, would be for the originator to have mastered the large scale mericloning of a single plant of N. Mixta, and to have done this years ago (Miranda has been around awhile now). If this nurseryman does indeed possess the secret to large scale mericloning of Nepenthes, then they should certainly by now have proceeded with fine cultivars like 'Dyeriana' or N. 'Peter D'Amato, or any number of fine individual species and hybrid clones. But it hasn't happened. Because the technology did not exist until very recently, and it is still in the experimental stage. It is impossible for N. Miranda to be a N. Mixta, unless a male Mixta was crossed onto a female Mixta to produce seed that could be put into tc. The nursery that produces Miranda originally listed the plant in their catalog as N. maxima 'Miranda', and they have the habit of naming their tc hybrids after the pod bearing parent, which in this case would be N. maxima. N. Miranda is most likely the hybrid of (maxima x Mixta). I'm a stickler about this because if someone wants to purchase or trade Mixta they will not be getting the same thing with a Miranda. One of the key distinguishing features between the two is the larger size of N. Mixta's upper traps.
N. Mixta is an old hybrid. There are several cultivars of it around, most are male, but there once were some rare female clones (such as Mixta 'Sanguinea'). As you know, these plants come from tc., and all tc Nepenthes come from seed. Only recently has some success been achieved in mericloning Nepenthes. The only way N. Miranda could possibly be a Mixta, would be for the originator to have mastered the large scale mericloning of a single plant of N. Mixta, and to have done this years ago (Miranda has been around awhile now). If this nurseryman does indeed possess the secret to large scale mericloning of Nepenthes, then they should certainly by now have proceeded with fine cultivars like 'Dyeriana' or N. 'Peter D'Amato, or any number of fine individual species and hybrid clones. But it hasn't happened. Because the technology did not exist until very recently, and it is still in the experimental stage. It is impossible for N. Miranda to be a N. Mixta, unless a male Mixta was crossed onto a female Mixta to produce seed that could be put into tc. The nursery that produces Miranda originally listed the plant in their catalog as N. maxima 'Miranda', and they have the habit of naming their tc hybrids after the pod bearing parent, which in this case would be N. maxima. N. Miranda is most likely the hybrid of (maxima x Mixta). I'm a stickler about this because if someone wants to purchase or trade Mixta they will not be getting the same thing with a Miranda. One of the key distinguishing features between the two is the larger size of N. Mixta's upper traps.
Thanks Trent for an excellent synopsis of Miranda, Mixta and mericloning. I have the same thoughts about the common N. Miranda. I do believe its probably a Mixta hybrid or al least a Mixta type. The leaves are closer to N. northiana than a maxima. I haven't seen every maxima form, but most have compact foliage whereas the Miranda has large floppy foliage close to N. northiana. This is what I feel is correct. The upper pitchers of Miranda, is a lot more like northiana than maxima. Also I have seen a male flowering plant of maxima and its spike is not as large as the Miranda, while northiana has a long big spike like Miranda. (I haven't seen all the maxima in bloom, just maxima superba) and the northiana male in bloom was of a friend's plant that at the time wasn't as vigorous as mine is, but yet still managed to produce a huge spike similar to that of Miranda.
I would love to find out the origin of this clone and what its real identity is. I really like it as it's easy to grow and almost anyone can make a huge specimen in short order. Whatever it is I'd like to see it used in more breeding since its a goodbloomer with a large supply of flowers. Would ,love to see it crossed with a truncata though. A nicer more compact plant with huge pitchers are always a plus!!!!
Michael
I would love to find out the origin of this clone and what its real identity is. I really like it as it's easy to grow and almost anyone can make a huge specimen in short order. Whatever it is I'd like to see it used in more breeding since its a goodbloomer with a large supply of flowers. Would ,love to see it crossed with a truncata though. A nicer more compact plant with huge pitchers are always a plus!!!!
Michael
Mericloning is the production of clones of an exact plant. It is, in fact, the closest thing to true cloning of desirable cultivars. TC is not a mericlone, at least where Neps are concerned. All the clones of a particular Nepenthes in tc are derived from a seed. Think of it like raising it from seed, but having any number of plants you desire from that one, individual seed.
Also, N. Miranda definitely has more northiana like characteristics compared to N. Mixta. I still am fairly sure that N. maxima is Miranda's mom. That does not negate the possibility of one of her off-spring looking like a grandparent(northiana)! When this hybrid first became available for sale there were a number of siblings in tc. The originating nursery has eliminated the others and kept production of N. Miranda.
Also, as Julian mentioned, there are other (maxima x Mixta) hybrids around. There is one cultivar of the Japanese hybrid N. Oiso (Mixta...a female
x maxima), that strongly resembles Miranda.
Also, N. Miranda definitely has more northiana like characteristics compared to N. Mixta. I still am fairly sure that N. maxima is Miranda's mom. That does not negate the possibility of one of her off-spring looking like a grandparent(northiana)! When this hybrid first became available for sale there were a number of siblings in tc. The originating nursery has eliminated the others and kept production of N. Miranda.
Also, as Julian mentioned, there are other (maxima x Mixta) hybrids around. There is one cultivar of the Japanese hybrid N. Oiso (Mixta...a female
x maxima), that strongly resembles Miranda.According to what I have seen about cloning and mericloning nepenthes, the embryo of a seed has the best chances of replicating istelf than any other growing point on the plant. the seedling cells multiply and divide easily invitro and can be divided into smaller cells that divide and replicate itself well. The problem is that most of the time, a plant that is TC from seed has unknown adult matured characteristics than if taken from an adult mature plant showing characteristics that we'd like to see in plants desired. This is why you don't see any N. Trusmardiensis in TC or even a hybrid like N. Predator. But if one is to remake the cross of Predator (N> truncata by hamata) then we could anticipate the result of the developing seedling when mericloned for replication. But the final result of what you cloned is totally unknown until a sample of that batch is grown to semi-matured characteristics. Like Red Leopard. I believe N. Miranda was one of several clones grown from seed invitro and then tc for massed replication. It appears that N. Miranda originated from DeRoos in Denmark, so the clone must have originated in Europe. I also believe that DeRoos also purchased experimental clones invitro from Malesiana and some still bears the MT clone numbers starting with NE (i.e. N. tobaica and N. Ventrata...which DeRoos sells as N. alata). They are having nursery management problems at the moment and other internal problems with regard to reliable professional help, so they had intended many more nepenthes to be grown, they've lost countless tens of dozens of clones in transit and disappearance from lab to nursery.
Or possibly espionage theft to keep certain clones from becoming widespread as N. ventricosa, truncata, Gentle, Miranda, Coccinea, alata (Ventrata), tobaica, Judith Finn, rafflesiana, and sanguinea.
More later on the subject when a post is out on this topic specifically.
MM
Or possibly espionage theft to keep certain clones from becoming widespread as N. ventricosa, truncata, Gentle, Miranda, Coccinea, alata (Ventrata), tobaica, Judith Finn, rafflesiana, and sanguinea.
More later on the subject when a post is out on this topic specifically.
MM
